The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece

According to information of the “Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine, the U.S. authorities approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks to the Greek Army, which will include options between simple refurbishment – worth tens of millions dollars for all the tanks- and upgrading to a higher level of operational capability, with a higher corresponding cost. The relative Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) is expected soon.

Also according to exclusive information of the” Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine, a Price and Availability letter was sent to U.S. authorities regarding 20 AAV7A1 and a low cost upgrade program for them. This is the first step to cover an operational requirement for 75-100 vehicles.

Additional exclusive details on these requirements as well as for Bradley IFVs, in a forthcoming issue of the “Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine.

Source: hellenicdefence.gr

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  • Briggs

    Shouldn’t you Greek lot be saving money to pay off your debts instead of getting new military toys you don’t need?

    • Hehe

      No, they need guns, so they can protectc their country from debt collectors.

      • Poor Greece

        Actually the government of Greece needs guns to protect themself from angry citizens.

        • Chilly

          Putin has suggested a return to a ‘Eurasian Nation’. Everyone is prepping for a new Cold War.

        • Chilly

          Putin has suggested a return to a ‘Eurasian Nation’. Everyone is prepping for a new Cold War.

      • Poor Greece

        Actually the government of Greece needs guns to protect themself from angry citizens.

  • Teppo Moilanen

    Jutta signs a loan for Greece, Greece buys tanks.

    Meanwhile in Finland garrisons are put down because they are too expensive.

    I would propose a defensive pact (non-EU, non-NATO) between Finland and Greece. Train and have a garrison in Finland in exchange for our loan?

    • asdf

      why the fuck would we want more garrisons in Finland? I’m glad they’re finally closing some of them

    • john

      Turkey is not threatening finland with invasion of thei teritories are they? If turkey seizes Greece’s EEZ how will they pay back

      • Anonymous

        Since Turkey has a lot better economy they could pay back greeces loans after all other EU-contries sell greece to Turkey.

        • john

          Would you include Cyprus in the sale, if there were no Greece there would be no Republic of Cyprus because Turkey would take that too. Your flippant remark misses the point entirely, do you think the EU would LEND (not give) money to Greece if they didn’t fear the repercussions of letting Greece fail, your masters are not helping Greece because they love her.

  • AC

    Let’s get some things straight regarding the ignorant comments I read here:

    1) these tanks are not bought. They are given almost for free by the US. Total cost about $8 million according to Greek media sources including the cost of transfer to Greece.

    2) they are about to replace existing older tanks which have higher maintenance costs and are close to become obsolete.

    3) operational defense costs in Greece are already down around 30% (!).

    4) in terms of procurement of new weapons systems almost nothing is bought for several years now. In fact some previous deals considered closed like the procurement of BMP-3s from Russia and FREMM frigates from France are considered history now.

    3) I am trying to think of a country in Western Europe that has to face an aggressive, provocative, irredentistic enemy like Turkey with big army and constantly increasing expenditures in military procurements. Portugal,Sweden,Finland, Belgium, Denmark maybe? None I guess.

    4) In fact a reason that led Greece close to bankruptcy is this arms race that no one cares to stop in the EU or the US by putting political pressure on Turkey. And the reason is obvious. It gets them so much money, why care to stop it???

    It is nice and easy sitting on your warm comfortable chair criticizing everything without having any idea of what is going on in Greece and its region.

    • Teppo Moilanen

      If I recall it correctly, Greece and Turkey are both in same military alliance, whereas Russia remains unopposed in eastern front of Europe, recently making a blazing intervention to Georgia, all while increasing military precence near Baltic Sea (St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad) by upgrading equipment and increasing manpower.

      But I guess it is okay to protect all the temples and cultural stuff you guys have there and forget freezing lands of thousand lakes.

      • AC

        There is not much comparison on that.

        You seem to forget the fact that Turkey is constantly and opening threatening Greece with war and that there are recent cases of shooting down aircraft over the Aegean with casualties bringing the two countries on the verge of war.

        Not to mention the Imia crisis caused by Turkey by occupying a Greek inhabitant islet. In fact that crisis was caused following a period that Greece had neglected its armed forces and Turkey took advantage of it.

        There is even a Casus Belli officially issued and voted by the Turkish parliament against Greece.

        I am trying to remember the latest threat that Russia issued against Finland. Can you help me on that?

        On the contrary, you can bet that Russia being a clear and well defined opponent of the West will never dare to attack an EU country, because Russia knows for sure that the US and the rest of Europe will react decisively. And what about nuclear weaponry that will be used in such an event. Isn’t that a deterrent?

        Do you really think that the same applies with Greece and Turkey (which is one of the closest allies of the US)? Do you believe that the US, France, Germany of Finland will come to protect us against Turkey in case of war??? I guess we will have to save ourselves. And dont tell me about the UN that will intervene or issue any condemning resolutions. UN did that back in 1974 with the Turkish invasion on Cyprus. Nothing changed.

        Greeks are not fond of war. On the contrary having paid a huge burden in terms of losses in WWII (perhaps they are no2 after USSR in relation to their population) they deeply despise war. And they would prefer to spend their money on healthcare or education, you bet on that. We are really jealous of other countries in the West that don’t have any real need of an army.

        • I love Feta

          Despite of the facts of having critical relationships with other countries, the rest of Europe is helping to pay your debts – not to buy new weapons for your armed forces. Doesn’t seem quite fair that the money, supposed to help country to not fall in state of bankruptcy, are being used to buy new weapons.

          I’d be willing to send Finnish troops on Greece soil on EU mandate if state of war begins, but not money for something that isn’t necessary at this precise moment to stabilize your country’s economy and well-being of its nation.

          • AC

            I respect your will to help Greece by all means, I would do the same for any European country.

            However, I heavily doubt that any such mandate will ever be issued. Most probably in case of war the EU,US and UN will just intervene diplomatically so that a cease-fire gets agreed as soon as possible.

            As for the money, according to Greek sources are no more than $8 million. I stressed that already.

            Besides, according to the agreement that Greece signed with its lenders all the money given to Greece are solely intended to cover previous debts. Not a single cent can be spent in any kind of internal expenditure. Did you know that?

            So in fact these 8 million dollars will not be taken by the lenders. Instead in order to find these funds we will have to cut off from other resources (healthcare, education who knows?).

            Does that help you realize how important defense is for Greece? There is no comparison with what other countries have to deal with that is why it is difficult for you to understand.

          • Tyroneez

            The troika borrows from the markets at 3% or less
            And lends to Greece at 5% …
            thus making a profit of 2% for the Germany , Dutch and Finnish tax payers …
            Get your facts right first before , crying about giving money to Greece

    • Luis

      1) These tanks will have to be either refurbished, or upgraded to M1A2 standard. That will cost money that Greece does not have.
      2) Greece already has 170 Leopard 2A6 and 183 Leopard 2A4. It does not make any sense to add a completely different tank (and different logistics) when they can buy second hand Leo 2A6 from Netherlands or Germany.
      3) Abrams has the highest operating costs of any modern MBT thanks to it’s turbine power plant, which uses massive amounts of fuel and requires specialized mantainance operations.
      4) Spending any money on defense equipment with their current economic crisis is simply insane.

  • AC

    Let’s get some things straight regarding the ignorant comments I read here:

    1) these tanks are not bought. They are given almost for free by the US. Total cost about $8 million according to Greek media sources including the cost of transfer to Greece.

    2) they are about to replace existing older tanks which have higher maintenance costs and are close to become obsolete.

    3) operational defense costs in Greece are already down around 30% (!).

    4) in terms of procurement of new weapons systems almost nothing is bought for several years now. In fact some previous deals considered closed like the procurement of BMP-3s from Russia and FREMM frigates from France are considered history now.

    3) I am trying to think of a country in Western Europe that has to face an aggressive, provocative, irredentistic enemy like Turkey with big army and constantly increasing expenditures in military procurements. Portugal,Sweden,Finland, Belgium, Denmark maybe? None I guess.

    4) In fact a reason that led Greece close to bankruptcy is this arms race that no one cares to stop in the EU or the US by putting political pressure on Turkey. And the reason is obvious. It gets them so much money, why care to stop it???

    It is nice and easy sitting on your warm comfortable chair criticizing everything without having any idea of what is going on in Greece and its region.

  • What do They know?

    What did they do with the German Leopard tanks they bought a few years ago?

    Or are they preparing for a war in the near future?

  • What do They know?

    What did they do with the German Leopard tanks they bought a few years ago?

    Or are they preparing for a war in the near future?

    • Leo2

      Greece has 350 Leopard 2:s, 500 Leopard 1:s and about 400 m48:s. Greece absolutely does not need new armor, they need to divest aALL their Leopard 1s and M48s. They could also sell half of their Leopard 2s. Looking at the geography, Greece’s land force, especially armor, is WAY too big.

      Besides, they’re bankrupt and should not buy any new toys.

      • AC

        As I said these tanks are about to replace old ones, namely the M48s. Lower maintenance costs is among other things an important issue.

        Can you suggest another way to respond to the increasing threat from Turkey, besides giving just 8 million dollars in order to face 1000 new Altay Turkish tanks?

        I believe you are suggesting giving away our land to Turkey with hands down. Thrace will be ok? Some islands maybe?

        In case of war you should know that also the lender looses money.

        Perhaps the US being more smart than you, they are trying to keep some balance in the region by giving Greece some ‘new toys’.

        • AnonD

          I have a good solution, kick Greece out of EU and take Turkey in.

          • Vassilis

            Well most EU leaders disagree with you. They don’t want a rogue state inside the EU and they probably know better.

            Perhaps this conduct of Turkey against Greece,Cyprus,Bulgaria and Israel shows that its place is rather closer to Iran than to the EU.

        • Info

          Oh yeah sure, because Turkey really is going to start a war with an EU member… Right.. I have a lot of respect for Greece and the Greeks, but ignorant positions like the ones of AC make me fear that Greece is continuing in the wrong direction! The country is as good as bankrupt and then someone starts arguing that Greece really needs those tanks because Turkey is going to invade them soon…. Wake up dear AC, wake up!

          • AC

            Some facts:

            1)Turkey currently is threatening Cyprus with war, another EU member and occupies 1/3 of its territory, I guess you know that.

            2) Turkey is also threatening Israel with war

            3)causes trouble to just another EU member, Bulgaria by manipulating a Turkish minority political party there.

            4) A few years ago Turkey occupied a Greek (inhabited fortunately) island.

            5) Everyday Turkish fighters violate the Greek airspace, even overflying Greek islands in low altitudes over the Greeks leaving there.

            Don’t you see any threat there?

            On the contrary you probably suggest that Greeks are just going mad and they prefer to buy guns (which they don’t by the way) just for the sake of it instead of living better. Perfectly reasonable conclusion.

          • AC

            I forgot to mention a 6th fact: The official Casus Belli issued by the Turkish government against Greece a few years ago.

            It’s really nice living in this corner of the planet. Some of you come for holidays and you think everything here is calm and cool. Well as you see it is not.

          • Info

            I have been working in the field of international relations for quite some years now and I can assure you that Turkey is not going to invade Greece.

            The issue with the inhabited island happens everywhere in the world between countries and has nothing to do with a war. You are probably a military man, and I respect that very much, but please stick to the facts instead of propaganda driven fears.

            And speaking about conclusions; the only reasonable conclusion here is that Greek governments lied there way into the crisis (I’m not blaming the Greek people). Drastic measures have been taken but still the system is broken. In such a system lobby groups are very powerful, and as a person with a military background you know how powerful the army is when it comes down to lobbying.

            Btw. I have never given a judgement on this particular deal, but only on your effort to “sell” this deal by means of predicting that Turkey is going to attack you soon. And that my friend, is just living in dreamland!!

          • AC

            Well it is nice to hear an educated view, after all this flaming comments.

            Since 1974, after the coup d’etat, when democracy was restored in Greece and especially since 1981 when a socialist party came to power the military in Greece has lost all of its power. No general has any power to lobby effectively.

            On the other hand what has happened during that period is that western defense companies took advantage of the dispute with Turkey and lobbied hard to sell their weapons to Greece, taking advantage in some cases of the corruption of some Greek politicians. We are talking about a lot of money here.

            But that has changed now. No major procurement has been made by Greece for several years now due to the financial crisis. We are just striving to get some used equipment for free. That’s all.

            As for the island, google the ‘Imia crisis’ and you will see that it was not anything similar to what has happened elsewhere. Greece and Turkey were on the verge of war, since Turkish commandos occupied the island, the whole army was mobilized and three Greeks died after the fall of a navy helicopter.

            Let me ask, based on what you rule out the possibility that Turkey will invade Greece?

            Do you know the capabilities of its landing fleet and how many such new vessels it builds? And these vessels are not for the Kurds in the mountains I can assure you. They are based in the Aegean, just opposite to the Greek islands.

          • Info

            Concerning the islands; just from the top of my head; an island between Morroco and Spain. Same issue, commando’s were sent and war language was used. But using strong language is not the same as starting a war. Second example was between Venezuela and The Netherlands, over Curaçao.

            I base my judgment on the likelyhood of Turkey starting a war on the fact that it would serve no Turkish interest apart from pride. This pride can cause incidents but never a war. Starting a war would never be condoned by the US and Europe and would basically be the end of Turkey. If not millitarily, at least economically, socially and politically. And that is exactly why we will continue to hear a lot of hard words but not see a war.

            Besides I can let you in on a secret; the plans are already on the table for Turkey to recognize Cyprus. Part of growing towards the European family and

          • Kings_lod

            Did you forget about the Falklands?

          • Kings_lod

            Did you forget about the Falklands?

          • Vassilis

            My friend, it is well known since the time of Thucydides that the decision to start an aggressive war mainly focuses on the calculation of possible costs and benefits.

            By dismantling or downsizing the Greek Army we essentially lowering the ‘costs’ of the opponent.

            As far the benefits take a look at this in case you did not came across it.

            “The paper reported that in 2010 the Turkish army’s General Staff asked academics and legal maritime experts whether they thought it was worth going to war over the energy reserves of the eastern Mediterranean. The answer reportedly was ‘yes’.”
            http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/09/turkeys-resolve-tested-by-drilling/

            Besides the fact that a war against Cyprus, instantly means a war against Greece (we are the same nation as you know), there are many scientific research on the press regarding vast gas reserves in Greek waters as well. In fact the Greek government is starting the process of exploration in the West and South of Crete (not in the Aegean because of Turkey of course).

            As for the secret you are talking about, I really hope that this becomes a reality. However let me retain some serious doubts, especially after the recent threats and general aggressive conduct of Turkey against Cyprus.

            My opinion having the bad chance to know well my neighbor is that in case that Turkey recognizes Cyprus, will do so after really hard bargaining and having earned extremely important things in return. So important to them that I do not dare to imagine what that might be!

          • john

            24 hours are a long time in politics!

          • Amazed

            I’d like to remind everyone that the Turkish side in Cyprus already recognized the Greek side politically and officially for unification and it was the Greek side that said “No”. Even the EU was shocked and surprised.

          • Info

            As for the role of the military. A fundamental principal of each army is that it consists of well organized and loyal people. In other words a big group of voters. A group that a lot of politicians want to get the electoral support of, and want as “friends”. so only this gives the army already relatively a lot of influence. Especially in a country that is in need of the loyalty of police and armed forces more than ever.

            Besides that, as you have said before, weaponry is big business, and where there is money there are people with interests trying to influence politicians, this does’t have to be through corruption by the way.

          • Vassilis

            Generals in Greece are considered just employees by the politicians. For instance Greek generals were favoring the acquisition of the F-18 but the prime minister A.Papandreou bought F-16s and M-2000s instead. 100% political decision.

            In another instance generals wanted the F-15 but the government of Simitis bought another batch of F-16s. There is a reason that they are calling us Lockheed territory. :)

            As for the corruption there are currently relevant trials underway. I hope that justice will be served.

            I agree on the ‘vote’ issue. But in that respect, notice how things work in Greece. In order to get political support the previous government just before the elections reduced the military service for the citizens to just 9 months and now the camps are …empty… The new political administration of the MoD is seriously considering now to increase military service back to 12 or 14 months despite the political cost because of the current geopolitical turmoil in the region.

            In another respect, the political leadership of the MoD was opening camps in the past in all over Greece, just to support the local community of…voters…(you know it is important to have people coming to your city, they rent houses, buy things etc). These unnecessary (in terms of operational needs) camps now are either closed or about to be closed.

          • O’Donnell_2012

            I am sure everybody in Greece will sleep a lot better tonight since some anonymous idiot in a forum “can assure you that Turkey is not going to invade Greece”!!!!

          • Guest

            Turkey is a NATO member….so is Greece !

          • Panos

            So?

          • Joannis vassilakis

            dear info i think turkey is a threat to greece and eu and greece is seriuslly dealing with a posibility of war with turkey.unfortunelly its a wrong time for greece to spend money in guns but they want to keep ther suverenity most of anything in the world.

          • john

            The EU has zero appetite for war and the most they would do is write Turkey angry letters and perhaps place some economic sanctions on them. I don’t know what you think you know but I really don’t think you understand the history here or what Turkey would acheive by taking some of the small Greek islands. Turkey would expand its maritime borders and claim a much larger EEZ for the purposes of drilling for hydrocarbons. Do you really beleive that Europe would go to war or enforce sanctions for any protracted period for what they would see as a minor incident (although they would claim it to be serious a serious development to the public)? Especially true if turkey can provide their energy needs, get real. Incidently, Turkey has been busy building landing crafts which have one purpose and one purpose only. As you are so sure Turkey won’t attack any part of greece or it’s islands put your house on the line and give it to a greek refugee if you are wrong.

        • Greek Drama

          Yeah we Turks are just thinking about invading greece all day long..Sometimes i even forget to feed my child cuz of that

          • Leonidas

            Yeah right, it is the rich Greek oil deposits that they wnat.

    • AC

      The Leopards are here and perhaps they serve so far their role as a deterrent for not being attacked by Turkey.

      On the contrary Turkey seems that it prepares for war. They are building 1000 modern new generation Altay tanks, they are buying 100 F-35, and they are vastly expanding and modernizing their landing fleet.

      Greece in response and in need to defend its self can only give $8 million to get some 2nd hand US tanks…

  • Jani Laaksonen

    Wtf Greece? We are saving our asses off our own costs, signing loans for you with little chance of getting anything back in the next decades and you’re preparing for…what? Come on play fair now.

    yours confused,

    a finn

    • AC

      Do you think that $8 million will make any difference?

      This is how much a big apartment costs in any city.

      And these are pretty much the costs paid by Greece for renting hotel suites to the representatives of the ‘troika’.

      Of course the ‘ troika’ did not had any objection on that ‘sale’.

      On the contrary can you realize how much important that is for Greece?

      • A B

        8 millon does’n feel anywere you are right but that is price of 1 tank they are buying 400M1A1 and they consider buying 2 Submarines and more vehiceles…..

        • Panagiotis Grigorakis

          They are used US M1A1s in deep storage and they are essentially given to Greece for free with Greece taking up the costs of returning them to a usable condition, which are not that great for such a massive upgrade in operational capacity. With these tanks we can decrease the types in service, thereby decreasing operational costs.

    • ΑΒΓΔ

      Wtf Finland?
      you save the european bank system(your asses with your own cost) ,or you believe you give money because you are ‘good’ people?
      and why do you think we have to ‘report’ to what we want/must/have to do to keep our nation safe and free?
      -come on !you play fair now.
      if you want to lend money ,do it .
      if you dont ,dont than.
      but in anyway greece belongs to greeks and not to eu states .
      so! dont be confused!
      shut the f#ck up and leave us allong .

      -since when we have to talk to every a##hole ,just because he lend us some ‘litle’ money?

      • Tired of lazy Greece

        What the f#ck Greece ? Finland gives Greece 1500milj. euro…and Greece buys weapons ! …so shut the f#ck up and start paying back what other countries have given…Greece should be kicked out of EU NOW !

        • ΑΒΓΔ

          filand is not giving money to greece ,is LEND money to greece (with guarantee).

          -check the deal for M1 tanks and than talk about ‘buying’ .
          but again and again ,you have no business to tell us what we are goingn to do with OUR country ,or do you believe with some mil. you buy your self a country to play?

          -we have money business with EU states and nothing more.
          we respect the help we get from them and is no gift is a loan.

          -so …..dont push it to far or maby ,yes ….we will get out from EU …
          and euro and leave you spain ,italy ctr ….

          (-dont be confused ,we are patient , but if a europeans keep acting like idiots as i read here…we can f#ck up all the EU.)

          • Aanikki

            As a matter of fact, the people of Greece have already screwed the Union over. And what are you all going to do about it? Instead of taking responsibility all I see is people assing around throwing rocks and screaming like a bunch of spoiled brats in downtown Athens. A nation with such a proud history making a fool of itself. Greece leaving the EU would be a relief, I’d love to see you fight of the “vicious Turks” flatbroke. Those tanks don’t run on the holy spirit you know, you need EU backed loans for that…

          • Gwrgrggr

            the average greek had nothing to do with the crisis. he is suffering. you are suffering. the man with the money is laughing at both of you. he fucked you over.

          • Anon

            If the average Greek paid his taxes there would be no crisis.

          • Johanna

            You should know, that your comment is bullshit!
            Average Greeks have no other choice, like everywhere else in the world!

          • molon labe

            No that is right they do not run on the holy spirit. But your brain sure is

          • Hesanainen

            It is a loan, when you pay it back. So shut up and keep to the conditions as set by the Troika and pay the loan back. Only then you have a right to say anything against the people who did not want to lend you the money. Prove something and stop talking back…. If you can do that by all means: “Goodbye”…

          • Johanna

            All the money was spent to pay the loans back.. it never touched ground… if you know what I mean

          • Hesanainen

            Yes, I do perfectly know what you mean. Banks were eager to give out loans, not caring one bit if you could pay it back and what paying back these loans would mean for the finances of generations to come. That people are sceptical about Greece’s ability to pay this new loan back is justified as Greece did not make the conditions set by the Troika. However it still seems that next tranche of the loan will be paid anyway. Of course this reduces the faith of the taxpayers in other countries (the people who pay this huge loan) even more. People in Greece have to understand, it is not a problem to be asked to share. But the northern part of the EU has never been sharing. We always have been on the paying end and never on the receiving, this is a bit too much…

          • a European taxpayer

            @ΑΒΓΔ….I posted this earlier….but do it again because you seem not to know what a loan is.
            It is a loan if you will pay it back…… do I have to say more ???

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan

          • Johanna

            Exactly! And that’s exactly what happenes with the loans.. Greece pays their depts with another loan… vicious circle….sad, isnt it?

        • Leonidas

          Tell me, why is the suicide rate in Finland so high, can you imagine if you had the problems the Greeks have, you would all kill yourselves!!
          You must be a very sad week nation, shame.

          • Anonymous

            Because lazy greeks spend all other poepoles money

          • Leonidas

            So the suicide rate in Finland is high because of the lazy Greeks????.
            Come to Greece my friend for a nice holiday and relax, get some sun and chill out, and you will be fine. It that way you help the economy and have fun at the same time. Come and you will see that we work very hard. Please come and see for yourself. I do admit that the Greeks hate paying Taxes, however that is changing with the new tax laws.

          • Johanna

            Who gave you the right to call the greeks lazy? Who do you think you are?

          • molon labe

            Good for them.Lets see if you are smart enough to do it.I guess not.So shut the f***up and keep working.Macht arbeit frei.

  • TH

    Greece has enemies. They are not like Netherlands or Portugal with no real need for armed forces. Many Europeans and Americans, can’t see what is happening in the region.

    • pekka

      this is goddamn ridiculous. FOUR HUNDRED almost top notch tanks for near-free? FOR A BANCRUPT COUNTRY TO DICKJOUSTING?!

      Greece adn Turkey are both in NATO, period. If they are on the same goddamn boat, especially on same boat as the U.S, this is absolutely ridiculous.

      if your m48s are being obsoleted, you retire em. if youre bancrupt and cant buy replacors, then guess youll have to do with 350 of the latest leopards for crying out loud, as Finns are doing against russia with less than 150 of older Leos.

      • AC

        You have uncle Sam, the UK and France backing you up with their military and their nuclear arsenal protecting Finland against Russia even if Russia was actually threatening the security of Finland. This is a ridiculous claim.

        Do you know why Finland does not need an army? Have you ever thought of that?

        • Info

          And you really think that uncle Sam and the EU would allow Turkey to start a full scale war in Europe. Let alone that Turkey would never do that because it would serve no interest of Turkey apart from “honor” and it would destroy the economy and future of a turkey completely.

          Either you are brainwashed by propaganda, or you are indeed full of (unrealistic) fear. In both cases I feel sorry for you..

          And to emphazise again; I love Greece, I love the Greeks, I respect your opinion, I even agree that every country needs a functioning defence force, but you can not expect me to go along with your absurdistic view on the world!

          • AC

            Well you should be completely unfamiliar with foreign affairs and military. Your ignorance looks profound.

            Of course no country will enter war if it has the possibility to fulfill its interests by simply relying on the power of its armed forces against a weak opponent. And even if it has to enter war the cost will be significantly lower if the opponent is ….disarmed as you probably suggest for Greece.

            And a war under conditions can further boost an economy (ask uncle Sam about that) or can serve as a response to a severe internal political crisis (typical for 3rd world countries like Turkey).

            As for the U,S do you really believe that they will fight their closest ally if he is determined to attack? In the case of the Turkish threats of war against Israel they did ….nothing. Or do you believe that France or Germany will threaten Turkey with war if it invades Greece? You are joking I guess.

            The truth is that in order to have a stable economic environment and attract investments you have to offer security. That is the question here.

          • Sam

            Damn it seems like you are all living in a video game! Grow up and start worrying about the real problems instead of inventing new wars that are never going to happen because of reasons that you apparently don’t see!

            The only way to deal which such a discussion is to agree with you on all points!

            Yeah of course Turkey is going to have a great economy when they start a war! Yeah they don’t need the trade with the rest of the world, no of course not! They are broadcasting ads on CNN just for fun saying they want investors in a stable booming country! And they indeed think that if they start a war these investors keep on coming! Of course!

          • Ppp2

            http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/turkey-greece-israel-and-cyprus-stake-claims/

            Take a look on that my ignorant friends. You think that Greece is somewhere close to Belgium I believe.

            Anywhere the invasion in Cyprus in 1974 did not had any negative effect on Turkey. I mean the occupation of 1/3 of the island is still in effect right?

          • greeks are lazy tax dodgers

            Greeks should pay TAXES not Tanks!!

          • molon labe

            no than(k)s

          • Papous

            http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/images/stories/Samos_ypovryxio_1L.jpg
            and this is a product of photoshop or better yet hallucinogen drugs which guess what?….we are buying with yr money
            or is it you people when you see someone walshing on yr back yard you ll reach for a treat and not for the police or a gun

          • AC

            Ask our fellow Greek Cypriots how it is like to live in a video game since 1974. Having the invader inside your house. (The invader is this ‘modern’ country you talk about and negotiate with, the one that did not pay sh!t for occupying 1/3 of another country, killing,raping and practicing the old fashioned ethnic cleansing).

            Admit it you did not care for almost 40 years now for the security of the Greeks and suddenly you realize that they have to have an army! What a surprise!

            You prove that you only care for the money. You don’t give a shit about the Greeks, you did not for nearly 40 years now. You were probably happy when Greece was able to buy your weapons. Right?

            It’s hypocritical to suddenly show your concern, criticize and even become ironic now that you lend Greece money.

            Great sense of solidarity mate. As much solidarity as a bankster has for his victim.

          • Tyroneez

            It’s not goin to be a general war ..
            It will be a limited land grab of a few islands … Which will give turkey control of greeces EEZ and it’s oil and gas resources ..
            Then the international community will step in to stop it …
            But the islands will have Been lost …
            Nobody is sayin that the Turkish army will be allowed to occupy Athens ..
            But Greek maintenance of military parity , over these last 40 years has been a stabilising factor in the region …
            Which must be Continued at all costs …
            Lest a foolish Turkish government is tempted into any crazy adventures

          • Dytouh

            No one but you seem and some fellow fanatics seem to question your security!

          • Ppp2

            Yes the Greeks are now fanatics now. Can you please explain then why Greece has to maintain such a big army? Do you have any idea or you just post flamming comments?

          • Anonymous

            Its simple. Greece need to have a huge army to control a large number of young men who would otherwise be unemployed and causing trouble in the streets. And to maintain discipline in the army the army must believe it has an enemy.

          • Ppp2

            You shoud not say it’s simple. because it seems that you do not to have any idea about what is going on in Greece.

            I don’t blame you for that, but please try to learn a thing or two before critisizing.

            So to get things straight.

            First of all the number of people under arms in Greece is considerable smaller that the number of unemployed. The ratio is around 1 to 8 to be exact and will be further expanded in the very near feature. You see there is already a whole ‘army’ of highly dissatisfied unemployed people who nevertheless dont get into any riot. So numbers don’t help this argument.

            Secondly, I dont see any direct connection in this. You probably mean that anyone young and unemployed in Greece will take part in a riot? Well dont trust your TV. There is always a minority who seeks for trouble, and there will always be no matter what. Violent groups were active in Greece long before the crisis began. But they were a minority and they still are.

            On the other hand, I would propose you check on the real democracy movement in Greece (created after its Spanish equivalent) which is massive and was organized through social media and the internet by young Greeks. All these young Greeks are protesting totally peacefully for months. But probably that was no worthy news for any TV.

            As for the discipline, well better think of that. If no enemy exists it’s better to downsize your army or even better get rid of it altogether and use the funds for something more useful. Especially during an economic crisis. That is a reasonable thing to do. Nobody maintains something so expensive as an army just for the sake of it, nobody is that mad.

          • Anonymous

            I meant it as a sort of joke. Its a reference to a standard motivation for keeping a large army thats been used for over 4000 years.
            I’m perfectly aware of what really goes on in Greece and that its actually a kind of paradigm shift in how politics work that is happening.
            The joke I made was a way of saying that all the arguments you come with regarding the need for Greece to get those 400 modern tanks are just old standard arguments thats been used consistently during at least the last 4000 years as soon as a ruler wants to spend on more arms at a time when the state is bankrupt already.

            Its fake arguments used when someone wants to maintain an expensive army just for the sake of it, as mad rulers often like to do.
            Problem is they usually find an excuse for using the army at a later time.

            The Turkish army is a problem for some in the region, but not so much for Greece as for Assad in Syria.

            If Greece really have a security problem with Turkey and really need to arm themselves for a possible tank invasion they better get some modern attack helicopters, like Apaches or Tigers instead of more tanks.

          • Panos

            So it might finally come down to what kind of equipment should Greece have in order to face its aggressive opponent?

            If you are a military man I can consider your opinion. But if you are not I would better rely on the balanced opinion of professional Greek generals who inevitably take into serious consideration the huge limitations of the financial crisis and try to find the best available solution (such as to accept a free offer from equipment available from the US) in order to protect the Greek sovereignty and the security of their people.

          • Anonymous

            What I meant is that its a well know military fact that tank armies are useless against an opponent with modern attack helicopters. Its been proven over and over again. The latest example is Libya.

            This is a clue that the motive for getting these tanks aren’t military but political (or corruption).

            Sweden is an example of a country who did exactly the same mistake and now has a large surplus of tanks and no helicopters.

            I think the Greek people should really investigate those motives and ask themselves why they should spend lots of money on upgrading 400 “free” tanks. When their very limited resources really should be spent on something else from a military standpoint.

          • Tyroneez

            @guest above
            As a Turkish agent … You should know better than most … Why a country like turkey … With a per capita income of euros 3000 … Should be spending 20 billion a year expanding it’s armed forces …
            If not to keep it’s millions of unemployed youth busy supressing it’s 30 million Kurdish citizens rights and illegally occupying northern Cyprus ???

          • Sam

            Since the closest ally of the US is Israel and not Turkey, what is your point !?

          • Ppp2

            He means that both the closest allies to Turkey are in dispute and the US does not react, which is reasonable.

            Go figure out what will happen in a dispute between one of the closest allies (Turkey) and Greece which is certainly not in the top list of friends.

            Actually Turkey was favored repeatedly by the US even when the right was on the Greek side.

          • ben solo

            3rd world countrie?16 major economie of the world nr 6 of Europe you idiot gayreek.
            As i said brfore get your facts right goat.

          • Tyroneez

            Ben solo
            The Turkish economy is the 17 th largest … At GDP 700 billion
            Produced by 70 million people …
            The Dutch economy is the same size and it only has 15 million people …
            The Greek economy is 370 billion produced by only 11 million people ..
            Per capita turkey is the 78th country …
            And Greece is the 32 nd …
            So you see my friend you have a very long way to go my Freind

    • Jorge Guerrero

      Hypathetically speaking, how would the M1A1 stack up against the Altay Tank in a battle in the Greece/Turkey border region?

      • Esezen

        I think all this talk about Two NATO allies fighting against
        Each other transpired after the European economy is undergoing
        Melt down conditions. As usual politicians are trying to find a
        Cover up for their fuck ups at the expense of it’s citizens based
        On greed!!! Greek citizens were lied by their politicians over the past
        Two decades about the Turkish threat so they can receive their
        Kick backs which partially led Greece to bankruptcy. Now EU is
        Having trouble to rescue Greece the only alternative left is to start a
        War to justify aid and divert people’s attention elsewhere. Smart and
        Evil way of resolving world’s economical problems. Papandreau is an
        X communist, Zionist and the worse leader for Greece as people of
        Greece well realized by now. He sucked the money well and now he
        Wants to risk his people’s life. Natanyahu and the Greek president
        Now with their Zionist views in common are preparing to start a
        War and get US involved and threaten world piece. What an evil
        Way to resolve world economic problems!!! I invite everyone to
        Wake up and start smelling the fresh coffee…

        • Eric

          Most people are to dumb or brainwashed to understand the problem.

          It’s not the peoples fault, the cash goes to the banks, not to the people.

          Soon millions of people are gonna lose their savings.

          World War 3, that’s why these tanks are needed.

          Greece is not Greece anymore, it’s just a battlefield owned by the megabanks.

          WHO DELIVERS THOSE TANKS & WEAPONS?

          Watch Meltup doc, on youtube

          WAKE THE HELL UP!

    • Lala234l234a242

      Yes, they have enemies…more than 250 Million European Tax payers who MUST help the lazy Greek people because we share the Euro and the Greece People are incredible liars who adopt the Euro with faked statistics. By the way: I spent my vacation this year in Greece. What happend? All the Museums are closed because of strikes or because they only opened for 2 hours daily. Then public transport strikes, taxi drivers strikes and so on…lazy people!!! Never ever vacations in Greece!!!

      • john

        How do you know when a politician is lying? His/Her lips are moving. This is universal and not exclusive to the Greeks. I,m sorry you had a bad experience but the places you tried to visit that were closed are run by civil servants (or government workers) for the most part and they are a branch of the corrupt government. My experience of civil servants worldwide is that they are not the most hard working members of society, they get great benefits and early well paid retirement. It sucks but this does not make all greeks lyers or lazy so please don’t hate a nation because of it’s politicians and civul servants.The biggest problem for greece is collecting taxes, here greece could be revolutionary by having a sales tax to replace income tax. That way tax is hard to avoid (even for the greeks) and the government would save huge amounts by not needing an internal revenue service (the tax man).

      • molon labe

        lalaland what are you trying to say i don’t understand a word.Are you having a stroke or something. Get to a hospital right away please

  • Leo2

    Of course the Greek army is entitled to these tanks. The evil Turkey is just next door, and could attack any minute now. It is entirely plausible that the countries financing Greece have to make big defense cuts, while Greece shops for new tanks.

    Come on… the country is bankrupt, but buys more weapons to defend itself against …an ally.

    • john

      Turkey an ally of Greece! what planet are you from?

  • Simon

    Thanks America !

  • mick

    Many people here seem to do not understand that the tanks are substantially a gift. Is there someone else who wants the partenon in exchange for the finantial aid needed to save Deutch and french banks.

    • molon labe

      Hey mickey mouse where is your friend goofy.First things first go back to elementary to learn how to write and then when you get your pubic hair come here to post your adult comments again

  • Guest

    Fucking amazing!!!

  • Jorge Guerrero

    Hypathetically speaking, how would the M1A1 stack up against the Altay Tank in a battle in the Greece/Turkey border region?

    • AC

      Not so good I guess. We are talking about ‘Desert Storm’ era tanks against 3rd generation new built tanks. And 1000 of them. Not that good chances but it’s better than nothing.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t think that the “indigenous 3rd gen turkish” tanks will be that advanced so as to give the other side any clear advantage…and remember we’re talking about Greek tank crews vs Turkish ones here…

  • Wonsku

    FUCK YOU GREECE!!!!

  • Anon

    Gotta be vigilant when bordering non-European turkic scum that has already stolen land from you.

    • ben solo

      You gonna eat your words gayreek!

      • molon labe

        Bensolo do you take it up the ass solo or do you need a double whammie. And by the way greeks are known for fucking gays like you You know the greek moto never leave your friends behind or what do greeks think about sex . Sexis a pain in the ass. Got it doos bug you provoked my profanity response by drawing first blood. Now go fuck youself

  • Anonymous

    I wonder what happened to the 1000 BMP-3s Greece was going to get from Russia? Oh that’s right, Greece isn’t allowed to buy weapons from non NATO-aligned countries (not dirt cheap ones at least) because that is just unacceptable to the “friendly, generous people’ that are ‘bailing us out’! However these same ‘people’ are more than willing to sell us overpriced and defective submarines and fighter jets! All hail the western defence industry!

  • Ppp2

    http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/turkey-greece-israel-and-cyprus-stake-claims/

    Some update of what is going on in the region for our northern friends who critisize everything so easily

    • ben solo

      you mean the Greek view?

  • Bols

    I guess all these people posting these nonsese can’t realize that it’s all about equipment given for free by the US.

    • molon labe

      America would not even give their flu for free.SO I BELIEVE IT IS YOU WHO IS POSTING THESE NONSENSE

  • Alexpapas

    It’s an offer for god shake… they are second hand tanks for the need of replacing older tanks with highly maintenance costs…. 400 for 20 mil$….
    and secondly we are in the borders of EU saving your ass from muslim & turkish aggression and immigration and instead helping us you verbally attack us…

    are U going to defend us from 100 f-35, 3000 turkish tanks, 12 new frigattes ?
    no, u ll low down your head indiffirently…
    so, SHTFP…

    • http://twitter.com/tracer1024 tracer

      Greece is taking the money of hard working EU tax payers to purchase tank? Disgraceful!!

      • Alexpapas

        nice twitter profile tracer….you seem dealing with greece all day everyday..in what Turkish goverment agency do u work for?
        ooo u care about Eu tax payers e?xaxaxa

        by the way, loans are loans not gifts..

        • June

          If you are right about the 3000 turkish tanks, 12 new frigates etc.
          You think your 400 new tanks will scare them off or even change their mind?
          You’re not even capable of decent bookkeeping, so I think defending Europe from foreign threats might be out of your league as well.
          Besides, why would they want to take over a bankrupt country?
          And yes, a loan is a loan, but I will probably not live to see the money back.

          • Lmephisto

            erm..the 400 new tanks aren’t the only ones that Greece have in its armory….wake up your calculations are completely wrong…

        • a European taxpayer

          @Alexpapas. Here is a description for you of what a “loan” is:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan

          ….it is a loan if you pay it back !! Do I have to say more ????

      • GamiasKsenwn

        Turkomongolian gipsy, we will free Anatolia and make Greek, Armenian and Assyrian again!!! You can go back to mongolia and eat goat cum! Fuck you, your allah and his “prophet” mohammed (piss be upon him)

        • Johanna

          Shame, your level is so low! To parakanes file!

    • NAP

      Good reply to all those ignorant and fanatic anti-Greece people…!! They should read the article first…saying “the U.S. authorities approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks to the Greek Army, “…

    • http://www.facebook.com/SuperSunshine21 ダール ダニエル

      Muslim and Turkish threat? Immigration? First off, do yourself a favor and don’t mix the two discussions. I mean, so your gonna use tanks to fend off immigrants while you also defend yourselves against muslims and Turkish aggression? Are they about to invade you? That sounds just as stupid as people in Sweden being paranoid about a Russian invasion… for a country interested in joining the EU, “aggression” wouldn’t be to their advantage. Fear-mongering rhetoric to justify idioting use of money is a situation where you have some work to do when it comes to your economy.

      • Alexpapas

        every 5 years we have a major war crisis with turkey…
        in 1996 we were in edge of war in an incident with 3 dead soldiers.
        in cyprus 1/3 of the country is occupied by 35000 turkish troops in an island of 900000 total population..
        turkey has put casus belli on greece for its naval rights in aegean, in cyprus they are already in war like situation(but your country says nothing nor for the 1500 lost soldiers of 1974 invasion which are still missing and according to UN turkey has to answer because they were its prisoners..)
        turkey now threatens with war even Israel and send frigates outside israeli ports..

        yes turkish aggression which is recently trasformed and enriched with islamic characteristics…at least that is what their prime minister is trying to do..
        secondly, immigration yes…100,000 illegal immigrants through turkey goes to greece…but u yelling at us hipoctritically for misbehaving them at the same time you are relieved that you are far away from the problem – the situtation in middle east…

        the tanks are for our protection from the war addict state of turkey…

        but of course these facts are fear moggering, and you apparently know my politicians better than me…

        • Andy Belgum

          You seem to forget that BRITISH troops are also garrisoned in cyprus. Why should we defend your lands with the lives of our troops.

          • mainwasser

            What exactly did the british troops to stop the 1974 turkish invasion of Cyprus?

          • mainwasser

            What exactly did the british troops to stop the 1974 turkish invasion of Cyprus?

      • Alexpapas

        and u didnt answer me…are U going to fight for me? or do u think I am going to fight for sweden?

      • Anonymous

        Leave Sweden out of this discusion please!

      • john

        There are turkish people living in my house right now, the one I paid for and was taken away from me at gunpoint and you think we are paranoid. When you have a clue about personal loss like this perhaps you will change your point of view.

      • Tyroneez

        The Turks are after greece’s EEZ … Take a look at the map / idiot
        Turkey even admits it …
        Building up it’s armed forces … Way beyond it’s defence needs .. It even threatened isreal i’n isresli EEZ last month ..
        Or don’t you read the news …
        So You don’t live i’n an dangerous neighbourhood … So what ??
        You take card of your Borders …
        And let Greece take care of it’s Borders ..
        Oh and don’t worry we know how to take care of our Borders …
        It wasn’t Greece who hide quietly behind it’s neutrality through 2 world wars … While the NAZIS were burning baby’s right next door … You pathetic hypocrite

    • Mfrom H

      Alexpapas,

      Bad excuse for spending money that is not yours and everybody knows you’re never givin it bad.
      Buy flowers in Holland..Spread them around . Works beter then, as you discribe it, old pantzers from US again the turkish.
      A little bit paranoia is in place here.
      Why would the try to invade your country?

      There is nothing to get, the banks are empty, the people are lazy, the weather is the same is in Turkey… and you are in the NATO aren’t you?

      Try to save money insted of spending .
      But that is the problem….that not in the nature of a greek.

      And when you have saved 20 million euros…. think about spending that on an old tankie or are you going to do something usefull with that money.
      Build a hospital or build schools …. maybe that is an idea.

      • Alexandros Drake

        Because the Aegean is filled with oil god dammit. Are you people lobotomized or something? Yes Greeks have failed to keep it straight you are right about that. But being threatened for your resources is another. We have oil, diamonds, gold, silver, copper, gas.. we know it for decades and we are not allowed to drill through and collect what is ours. We wouldn’t be thirsty and begging for piss right now… got it? You may live in holland or france, or belgium which is not even a proper country, and have forgotten the prospect of war and especially the threat of war. Don’t play spiritual superiority bullcrap instead get properly informed! And for crying out loud… you are not paying anything! They are suckerpunching you making you believe that you are paying more taxes because of us. Well here’s a revelation. You countries have massive debts too but they are hiding it from you. They use this blame it on Greece story to make you pay more taxes on the one hand while secretly try to loosen their debts on the on hand.

        Just think this through…

      • Alexandros Drake

        Because the Aegean is filled with oil god dammit. Are you people lobotomized or something? Yes Greeks have failed to keep it straight you are right about that. But being threatened for your resources is another. We have oil, diamonds, gold, silver, copper, gas.. we know it for decades and we are not allowed to drill through and collect what is ours. We wouldn’t be thirsty and begging for piss right now… got it? You may live in holland or france, or belgium which is not even a proper country, and have forgotten the prospect of war and especially the threat of war. Don’t play spiritual superiority bullcrap instead get properly informed! And for crying out loud… you are not paying anything! They are suckerpunching you making you believe that you are paying more taxes because of us. Well here’s a revelation. You countries have massive debts too but they are hiding it from you. They use this blame it on Greece story to make you pay more taxes on the one hand while secretly try to loosen their debts on the on hand.

        Just think this through…

      • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

        they want our natural resourses gas oil and many others..obout 1,5 trillion euros..your goverment does not in forme you? yours ships made search for for greek oil..

    • Sacc12356

      We’re trying to save your economy, something you people can’t do on your own. And this sort of stupid shit is why. How you gonna defend youreselves from the turks when ur bankrupt you idiot greeks???

    • OhNoIamATaxPayer123

      WHAT? The Problem is your damn paranoia with the Turks!!! Turkey and Greece are both NATO Members, they joined both in the same year. So in the Rest of Europe nobody fears Turkey because we have no Problems with them…I think you need the Tanks for the invasion of Greek Debt holders in 2012 which occupy your Country. Pay back your lend money to the Euro Countrys, it’s more than approx. 4.000,- Euros per Capita for every Euro Member State citizen. Lazy born Greeks.

    • OhNoIamATaxPayer123

      WHAT? The Problem is your damn paranoia with the Turks!!! Turkey and Greece are both NATO Members, they joined both in the same year. So in the Rest of Europe nobody fears Turkey because we have no Problems with them…I think you need the Tanks for the invasion of Greek Debt holders in 2012 which occupy your Country. Pay back your lend money to the Euro Countrys, it’s more than approx. 4.000,- Euros per Capita for every Euro Member State citizen. Lazy born Greeks.

      • Johanna

        hahaha, and I thought that the world run out of jokes!!!!!!

      • Tyroneez

        Idiot
        Actually the Greeks work the longest hours in Europe …
        Greece loans are maturing and need to be replaced ..
        The markets tried to charge 25% interest on replacement loans …
        The troika is charging 5% …
        it makes sense to replace expensive loans , with cheaper loans …
        The interests has always Been paid … And always will be paid …
        Nobody is askin to fir thd loans to be paid off …
        That’s just crazy …
        The banks are in thd business of lending money …
        They don’t Want Greece to pay of the euros 350 billion …
        They just Want the interest …
        But 25% was ridiculous …
        So Greece asked the troika for the replacement loan @5% … thus bypassing the greedy markets …
        And a good thing too …
        As long as the troika gets it’s 5% interest …
        Everything is ok …
        Germany borrows from the markets (banks) at less than 3% and lends to Greece at 5% … thus making a tidy profit for it’s taxpayers …
        You ignorant people need to take a course in mathematics ..
        That’s a Greek word by the way …
        Which explains why you nasty northern European racist bastards don’t understand it ..
        Not to mention the Turks here … Posing as Dutch and fins co
        Commentators

  • Alexpapas

    and god bless America…
    and its practical help…

    • Gomenos21

      As a Greek, I will be fair in my comment…our Goverment sa disgrace, our system is putrid, everyone here criticizing is right….open your eyes, we retire at 50 fir christs sake!!!! That’s ridiculous, however, this should not stop us taking these granted tanks from the USA, they are free, the price is only to cover shipping…
      Let them all talk, even a parrot can talk…don’t worry, define of the motherland is priority….
      We, as a people should have mire pride, stop the laziness and be productive, the gas and oil field in Cyprus, Crete, and by kefaloia will make Greece and Cyprus very wealthy, only if we have the right Goverment and get rid of the crooked politicians….actually, you, the Greek people should shoot these traitors, they are thieves, cowards and made you the people look bad, like gypsies, take back your pride and your country.
      Stop talking about hiw great you were and be great again, stand up and be heard!!! When he gas makes the country wealthy, pay back your debt, uth interest and pride, then tell the haters o suck your cock and your friends who stood by you thank you….
      This is time for Greece to eXprience tapinosi…..do something and prove these guys wrong

  • Pawe_FIN

    But repairing these tanks cost much for Greece?(cost with European’s money)

    I think that Greece must sell these tanks to somewhere for paying the debt. In Greece they say that we are helping ourselves when we give money to Greece. It’s like a robber threats a man with a gun and say “you help yourself if you give your money to me”. But Greece is not able to be not threatening us with a gun. Still they have failed and they have to do everything for being able to pay theirs debt. Sell your tanks, sell everything you can!

    I feel sorry to you Greeks, but you have caused your problem yourself and now you have to do everything for solving it. Greetings from Finland and good luck for this difficult mission!

    • Alexpapas

      In what way Island deteriorate its national security after its default????
      why should we do that???

      we are not threatening anyone especially europe, where did u see that?
      we work as protectors of its borders if you have the intellectual capacity to understand it…

      I feel sorry for u and you narrowminded view of geopolitics, when Russia overflies your borders dont call for Europe’s reaction…

  • Jason T

    Greece isn’t bordering with Norway or Sweden.
    Greece is bordering with Turkey!
    Can you tell the difference?
    Do you have the slightest idea what is happening right now in the Aegean sea and the eastern Mediterranean?
    If not shut the f*** up!

    • Hairysteed

      Greece is also not bordering with a nuclear superpower unlike Finland

      • Nzarkole

        u r right but a nuclear war against a west country automatically engages usa … they have the weapons but if they use them uncle sam will respond .. in the greek- turkish situation is a leathal engagement and the latest history shows that it won t stop … 1821-1897 -1912-1913 – 1955 -1974 (major incidents)

      • Anonymous

        Russia is a superpower but is also a just power, and will only take action when threatened or defending itself (eg see Georgia 8/8/8) whereas Turkey,regardless of whether it’s been the islamists or the kemalists in power, has always looked for opportunity to provoke a conflict with Greece (see Oparation sledgehammer “Balyoz” plan)

    • Anonymous

      400 Abrams and their attendant Bradley IFV support formations will make anyone think twice about attacking. You just have to account for the logistics of keeping all those vehicles fueled (Abrams gets less than a mile to a gallon, Bradley 1.5 miles to gallon) and parts to maintain them.

      If you can keep them running, you could work magic with them.

      • Amazed

        Preparing for a war that will never come. This reminds me of the Peter Sellers movie; The Mouse That Roared. If you haven’t seen it, watch it and knowing about all the conversation here, you wouldn’t be able to help yourself but laugh.

  • Ssw

    So instead of trying to improve relations with Turkey, Greece buys 400 tanks? I want to personally punch every politician in the face who decided on this.

    • Ppp2

      Improving relations with a bullying country, a rogue country according to many, is not the easiest thing to do, not based on terms of justice and equality however.

      Greece had always seeked for improving relations with Turkey, but Greeks are not stupid either. When during talks, Turkey asks for example the control of half the Aegean and is actively persuing this goal through military force on a daily basis, what can you respond to that?

      You probably know that most EU countries dont want Turkey inside the EU. However Greece is in favor of that accession. Do you know why? Because it hopes that this is the only way to get democracy and European values to Turkey, so that we can eventually be partners, instead of rivals.

      As for the punch, I can assure you that the vast majority of Greeks do want to punch their politicians who got them into this trouble. However concerning the security issues they back them up 110%.

      • Amazed

        I don’t understand one thing, why would Turkey want all of Aegean? They have what they have officially from signed treaties. Turkey would gain nothing from having all those islands since it would be a huge burden on the money. Greece already suffered enough keeping up with all these islands. Why would an economically fast growing country want useless little islands? Ottomans are long gone, Turkey is one of the most modern countries in Europe and the only country of its kind in its Asian region. Greece needs to let go of this pointless paranoia. No one is coming or planning to invade your country. No one has any need to. The times have changed and it’s a completely different world now. You’re still thinking like as if you’re living in the middle ages.

        • Tyroneez

          @Dear AMAZED
          I’m AMAZED that you don’t seem to know that turkey is demanding half the Aegean and half the Greek islands …
          Because of the EEZ and the oil and gas deposits contained in it .
          Of course you know … Because your a Turkish government agent .. Trying to sway the opinions of the north European commentators on here …
          Well you dont have to bother , most of them are stupid enough to believe that Greece is bankrupt and begging for handouts … Even though it has a GDP of 330 billions annually …
          It’s just a short term cash flow problem .. It will pass … And you will never get the islands or the oil or the gas …
          You couldn’t even stop little half occupied Cyprus from defying you …
          There is no chance with Greece … Despite the ignorant western Europeans … We know who we are facing … And so do the Israelis …
          And we have friends … Real friends … The RUSSIANS have always stood with us , not to mention china …
          Dream on little man dream on

    • john

      appease, appease, appease, worked well with Hitler!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=666249803 Björn Berndin

    I think Greece’s best bet to defend against Turkey is to stay friends with the people financing their country. Greece is just at tiny country and would never hold against Turkey, to let them believe that they could is just a trick from military export nations (USA, Germany, Sweden and others) to trick the Greeks out of (formerly their own, now) EU:s money.

    • Alexpapas

      tiny country was israel too but was determined to die for its freedom..as we too..

      what you cant get is that economic failure is one thing and fight for freedom and survival another one…

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=666249803 Björn Berndin

        You compare Greece to Israel? Your goal is a nation which is only maintained with massive amounts of military force and sponsorship from US? In that case I would like to remind the rest of the Greeks who don’t agree with that solution that Greece still is a member of EU and that gives you the right of free movement. If you leave Greece now and live in other EU-countries til this blows over then you can just go back after the debts are payed and everything is sold on discount.

        Another question, what is there to have in Greece? It’s a country completely dependent on other countries, with no ability to even produce enough food for it’s population. Does Turkey have a big need of stones which can’t be saturated with the Atlas mountains?

        • Alexpapas

          so your innovating proposal is that in order to defend my country Europe provides me the solution of leaving it? wtf?
          are u listening yourself?

          iam telling you that no matter how rich or poor iam i will protect my national security and freedom… Greece is in fiscal mess, but it’s not the first time..and it’s not the first country in history with economic problems…Argentina, Island didnt give up their sovereignity ..

          and we produce enough to live with that if that’s your problem…

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=666249803 Björn Berndin

            No you don’t produce enough to live with.

            If you think that you can protect your country by military means then you are incredibly naive. For every tank that Greece buys there will be 2.5 tanks bought in Turkey. For every tank that Greece buys US will buy 70 tanks. If there is any knowledge of maths left in Greece since Archimedes and Eratosthenes died then you should be able to see how ridiculous you seem when you say that you are going to defend your country.

            While trying to defend yourself with weapons you have now sold your soul to EU which owns your ass. You can’t really do anything now, instead of just living peacefully along with Turkey you have now become our slaves.

            Don’t forget that US has an habit of first providing weapons to countries to “help” them and then they invade them and take the weapons back if those same countries tries to use their weapons to do anything that US haven’t told them.

          • Alexpapas

            but that’s the point..US is giving us the tanks in order not to let turkey be a sheriff…see turkey’s behavior wiht israel….us will never let turkey harm israel and they want powerfull allies of israel in the region…

            Turkey ha s borders with Iraq-Kurdistan, Syria and Iran..so they need alot of tanks there too..so the analogy you said is considerably lower…and secondly, the land borders of Greece with turkey is ~150 km wide and there is a river they have to cross, so they cant deploy all of their tanks as they or you wish…

            The comparison with us is totally idiotic, as they are our allies and they give,grant,offer us for free 400 tanks..

            We have a tradition in fighting bigger enemies we are used too…

            and yes we produce enough to live with,.. imports are in tottally uncessesary products but people used to buy a lot because of loans and plastic money… now this is over if you check the updates of greek economy…so no more expensive european products..

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=666249803 Björn Berndin

            Your argument is that not all tanks can fight at once. So why then do you try to mass tanks instead of just getting the best available ones? To buy many old tanks would not be the choice if they in the end still have to funnel through a choke.

            They are not offering you free tanks, they are offering you to give up your souls and freedom, you are now economically invaded instead of militarily.

            Your freedom is still lost.

            Please explain to me what Turkey would have to gain from starting a war with Greece.

            What you naive people don’t see is that the only ones gaining from this is the Politicians in your government who gets bribed by the companies selling you the weapons.

            The politicians have realized that not all Greeks are naive and sometime soon they will get kicked out of government and then they need to have some nice bribe money saved in their foreign bank accounts.

          • Johanna

            Chill down please! This whole tank deal is a farce… latest news! Hahaha

          • Bertrand65

            “so no more expensive european products..”

            Thanks a lot, more for me :)

          • Johanna

            I kind of agree with you in general, but I also dislike the way you present the matter. Of course the level of the whole thread is quite low… nut thats another story

  • Kick out Greece from EU

    Who is threatening Greece ? Turkey is also a NATO member…
    Greece should concentrate on paying its gigantic dept…But I believe that Greece will not pay back one cent

  • Greece lives on dept…

    Turkey would be a better EU member than Greece…

    • Alexpapas

      yes indeed…they kill people for a cartoon, or a woman for a “honor” causes in marriage …Eu certainly likes these cultures…

      • ben solo

        Again gayreek we are turks not arabs,ask your mother and sister they know.
        Btw tell them we will be back

        • Leonidas

          Yes you are right Solo, Turks are Mongol Barbarians. I asked my mother and sister and wife and they said that Turks like you are ugly sleazy barbarians, with no manners. We prefer Greeks thank you.

    • Tyroneez

      @guest
      Obviously the tutkish foreign office or an extremist Turk talking here …
      And a sly one at that …

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PD2RKCPBVAOFWV5K4MZ4SFAQIY Tom

    Think the greeks should sell some of its islands, to, well, Turkey (if they have the money)

  • Anonymous

    400 tanks ?
    not a problem.
    reduce the pensions.
    next !

  • Alexpapas

    1st…a lot of Turkish “camels” arrived to preach about eu tax payers money….give us a break Asian muslims…

    2nd..I soooooo gonna enjoy when a northern country collapses or default….arrogant hypocrites…

    3rd.. iam happy that 400 tanks spead already the fear before they even arrived…

  • lefteris zrv

    who said that greece doesnt need tanks and army?
    and we didnt pay anuthing..
    dont forget because of the debt our goverment created we cant afford now buing weapons tanks frigates ..and the turkish are buliding their own tanks…

    google is your friend! IMIA … attilas .. look about these words … ;)
    we dont forget cyprus..
    they want our natural resources in agean..

  • Nikos

    I have a proposition. Let’s get rid all of our army. Right now. All of it.

    Let’s follow our EU friends advise. They are so much smarter than us, they know the politics of our region better than us, they care profoundly for our security and we should hear their advise, right??? After all their helping us with loans isn’t that true?

    So I am not only proposing to renounce this free offer of the US, I am proposing to dismantle the whole Greek army. We don’t need it anyway right? All of our economic trouble will be instantly solved and our friends from the EU will be happy along with us. Is that ok with you my friends?

    After that I bet our friends from the EU will say to Turkey. Back off from Greece, don’t dare to touch these good people, these are our friends (like if they ever have done anything similar before). And if Turkey nevertheless don’t gets frightened by that, insists on its well known aggression and claims over Greece and occupies let’s say just five small Greek islands for start (they have done something similar with 1 inhabited island but I bet you didn’t care to learn about it), then our friends from the EU will come to rescue us!

    You will see aircraft, tanks, frigates from Germany, Norway, Finland you name it coming down to the Aegean and starting a war for the rights of Greece! Yes that’s what will happen! The same will happen if Turkey attacks another EU member Cyprus. The EU on the rescue again!

    And they will impose huge sanctions against Turkey! Just like the do since 1974 when Turkey invaded Cyprus and still occupies 1/3 of its territory!

    Damn politics they just don’t make sense sometimes right?

    Have you ever cared to learn what Turkey did in Cyprus? Have you ever cared to learn the stories of the survivors? The killings, the rapes, the ethnic cleansing? I bet no, because learning about it will not get you money I guess!

    Why don’t you admit that you only care about your money and nothing else? You will be ok to see Greeks burning alive if this is the way to get your money. Bravo! This is the EU spirit!

    • http://profiles.google.com/kallekarloz Karl Hörnell

      I know very well what happened on Cyprus, though I do not believe it would happen again. Greece (as well as Turkey) is a friend of all of Europe, I would be surprised if we did not react against such a thing very harshly…

      However, at least Swedish media have posed this Tank business, not as a free offer, but as a big order of vehicles which US has accepted. Don’t ask me why they would say this.
      Politics will always be like this though, they will always make decisions and do other things that don’t really make sense. What is important now is that we stand together, both somewhat economically and military. But also remember that the reluctance from certain countries to help Greece economically at this point, is because of that your government has not really proved itself to be able to take economical care so far.

      Honestly, the one who attacks Greece, should face the wrath of Europe and NATO… After all, where does the name of Europe come from?

      • john

        Yep, if turkey invade cyprus and take the rest of the island I’m sure the EU will write them a very angry letter. They should face the wrath of europe and NATO for such action but NATO have already said that they see this as a bilateral matter and therefore would only act to prevent genocide of the greek cypriots (our Island would be gone).

        • Rick James bitch!

          Let them have it, is it really worth bankrupting your country or god forbid dying for a dump like Cyprus? that’s just assinine.

          • http://draketo.de Arne Babenhauserheide

            Why not start with selling [wherever your mother lives] to [whatever state is close]? I’m sure your state could use the money, too.

      • Panos

        Karl the way this deal was presented by the media was wrong. I guess the media in Sweden prefer to ‘sell’ a story by distorting it than to ‘report’ it.

        The fact is that defense cuts are way down in Greece. There are official figures from NATO available on the web to check them out.

        And further significant cuts are underway and more planned for the next years.

        Read the comments here you will see what’s really happening in terms of defense expenditures.

        As for the Turkish aggression check on the recent Operation Sledgehammer. It is amazing to see what these people were up to!!!

        • http://profiles.google.com/kallekarloz Karl Hörnell

          I know that it was the wrong story sold in Sweden, that was my point. Though they have changed the story now, I guess they realized their mistake.

          However, yes yes Greece is saving money, that’s a good thing.

          And whether Turkey and their soldiers have been doing bad things, I can just say I hope they’re not doing it now. I mean, Germany wasn’t all dandy during WW2, but I wouldn’t blame them for that now…

          And really, people should stop with the hating both ways in these comments.

        • http://profiles.google.com/kallekarloz Karl Hörnell

          I know that it was the wrong story sold in Sweden, that was my point. Though they have changed the story now, I guess they realized their mistake.

          However, yes yes Greece is saving money, that’s a good thing.

          And whether Turkey and their soldiers have been doing bad things, I can just say I hope they’re not doing it now. I mean, Germany wasn’t all dandy during WW2, but I wouldn’t blame them for that now…

          And really, people should stop with the hating both ways in these comments.

      • http://www.facebook.com/soubitos Christos Apostolidis

        Turkey is only friend to itself.. the sooner you understand it, the better.

        • Wolverine (U.S. American)

          And your country will suffer until you realise you’re your own worst enemy not the Turks.

          • Galia

            Right ! This is called Paranoia.

    • H_baris

      Tell me more about the rapes, all the kinky details! Any video material?

      • john

        Making fun of peoples misery, very PC

      • Anonymous

        I think I know where you are posting from, Mr Baris, so I’m not really surprised by your comment…I just really hope that you or your family do not ever have to experience the same pain…particularly if a certain country were to invade your nation and occupy the northern 1/3…or all of it

        • Sinan50563

          We already have same experience, Palastinian invaded by israel, Iraq is rulling by US and Iran is gonna invade by US. More than 600 thousend Muslim died in Iraq after US occupation. Dont even think yu have any idea of knowing your brothers are dying every they by a powerful enemy.Also We invade 1/3 of Cyprus because of Hellenic Racizm in that time.

          • Tyroneez

            At neosinan
            Sinan was Greek you idiot And so were your great grandparents , your so racist … You even hate your own ancestors snd history

      • molon labe

        i think its time you seek some psychiatric help you pervert. maybe a case study for swiss doctors.And make sure to refill your prescription on a daily bases so you do not run out.And by the way do humanity a favor and jump of a bridge when the water is low.

    • James O’Rourke

      You dont need tanks, just get 299 of your mates together and sharpen up your swords

      • Panos

        You mean our MPs? (they are also 300) LOL

    • W. Ticket

      So Turkey wants to have Greece? What about the EU selling Greece to Turkey? Problem solved.

      • Nick The Greek

        How bout you put yer money where yer stupid yap is and try to reposes Greece then, you wanker.

        As if our independence and defence is subject to approval by European politicians, or better yet, the miserly pseudo middle-class of Europe, stupid enough to blame their own miserly wages on the scapegoat Greece, rather than the Banks that have been fucking them in the arse, and will continue to fuck them, Greek default or not.

        • galia

          Please, let us freely choose how to spend our wages earned with our work. Do you deserve the results of my bullshit-working-days ?

        • Tyroneez

          Way to go nick / tell it like it is
          How the northern Europeans , are supporting the markets ( ie the greedy northern European banks ) and trying to bully Greece (which is living in a war zone and has always been a front line state , defending Europe ) to give up it’s defences … Is beyond me ….
          But they have always undermined Greece , it was they the franks who destroyed the medieval Greek state in 1204 AD ( Byzantium ) and let in the Muslim Turks …
          It took the Greeks centuries to liberate their country …despite the wests repeated treachery
          Don’t expect them to surrender now

      • Galia

        Can you give recent exemples of Turkish attacks against Greece ? I fear Turkey’sinterest is elsewhere. By the way, China has already bought Piraeus harbour. Let sell Greece to the PRC : Greeks will discover the Chinese definition of the verb “to work”.

        • Patton

          “Can you give recent exemples of Turkish attacks against Greece ?” Crisis of Imia (January 1996) , Constantine Iliakis (May 2006 , Greek pilot shot down by Turkish F-16 in Greek Airspace)

          • Lmephisto

            No to mention the plans of the so called :”operation sledgehammer” that Turkey was planning to attack Greece and claim Thrace…

      • Melissa

        uuummm..its kinda hard to sell the 27th economy of the world to the 78th economy of the world..u see Greece is still way richer than turkey…of course turks can massively sell their kidneys…then maybe they can afford one single Greek island…

        • ben solo

          Athena you must be the dumbest greek ever,Turkey is worlds 17th economie.
          Get your facts right.

          • Tyroneez

            Ben solo
            Athina is telling you that turkey is 78th i’n the world …when it comes to per capita incomes ….
            Just devide turkeys 650billion GDP by it’s 80million population and you will get …
            But i suspect mathematics was not your best subject at school ..
            By the way mathematics is a GREEK word …which explains why you don’t understand any of it …ha ha ha

          • ben solo

            read what she wrote,78th economie not capita per income.i think you went to shool with her ?Feta school was it on the mountains where you made the cheese?

          • Tyroneez

            @ben solo above
            You and I know exactly what she meant to say …
            Your pretending that you don’t understand , doesn’t make it untrue …
            Obviously English is not her first language …
            It’s so pathetic of you …
            Can’t you find some more important points to make …
            Other than trying to prove that Greeks are stupid …
            The Greeks have the highest percentage of professors and scientists and doctors in the world , and I’m including the diaspora in that statistic …
            I’m not even going to mention the historic contribution of the Hellenes … To the world …
            And you too , as a guaranteed descendent of the Hellenes , should be proud of that fact also …
            Every nation has a percentage of intelligent and stupid people , and that includes the so called Turkish nation …what is important is the ratio between the two !!!
            Just what are you trying to prove with your childish comments ..
            My sad and lost janissary friend ???

          • Lmephisto

            Athena is right , check your stats again , since Turkey is diving as well to bankrupt

        • Sinan

          a single island isnt good idea but Dodecanese is a kind of interting thoug, Turkey gdp is about 1,1 Trillion dollar (ppp) Greece about 330m us dollar and also they hava no dept.Also As a Turk i dont think we should buy any islands

          • Tyroneez

            @neosinan
            You would probably prefer to steal them …
            You fascist idiot

    • Ramses

      Just tell us if you need more weapons and money to defend your country. Maybe some 100 F-22?
      We Germans are always ready to help our friends in Greek.

      • Johanna_zapantis

        Since when are Germans friends of the Greeks? When will they pay back the gold they have stolen during WWII?

        • http://draketo.de Arne Babenhauserheide

          Now, if you could put numbers behind that claim and give them to the politicians in a useful fashion, that might be a way to deal with the debth in a nicer way.

    • stike vomit

      “You will see aircraft, tanks, frigates from Germany, Norway, Finland you name it coming down to the Aegean and starting a war for the rights of Greece! ”

      Norway isn’t in the EU numb-nuts. Your rant shows exactly how little you understand about Europe.

      • john

        It’s true, Norway is not in the EU so maybe that’s why a norwegian company is sending ships to do seismic reseach in the Rep. of Cyprus EEZ on behalf of Turkey. Perhaps if greece can pay Norway enough they will send a frigate to sink the vessel doing the research.

    • Natasja

      Nikos i think you dont know the minds of other EU citizens. I know hundreds of people in The Netherlands, who dont agree to all of this, who dont agree to our goverment. Who are in protest. Yes we do think about our money to! Because a lot of people here dont have food to feed their children! We have to pay taxes for other country’s Minimum wage is 900 euro, but the costs for living are 3x more. Please people do not think we are sitting on our money because we dont wanna help. We do wanna help the people of greece, but not with money to goverments! It wont reach the people. A friend of my started a system in holland. Realy good system. We dutch people a lot of dutch people are using that system. We help each other, and get HEC’s. Not mony but points, and with does points we can trade. We also trade food, like lettuce from the neighbour for a carrot from me. It works! So a lot of people dont go to the supermarket any more. we use trading our selfs. We have to, because all our momeny goes to the goverment. We have taxes for almost everything, our schools are expensive, mothers cant work anymore because teh babysitting is to expensive etc. Dont believe that we dont wanna help the people of greece! We do! But not with our money that we dont have.

      • a Dutch taxpayer

        …could have been my words !! :-)

      • Johanna_zapantis

        See, this is one of the problems…communication. Here in Greece we have no idea about your situation in Holland, because we are the bad guys and have to defend ourselves continuesly. Trust me, ordinary people did their best to get the country out ofthis mess, but when they learned that their sacrifice made the situation worse, and they were lied to by their own government…..
        I am not an expert, but I believe that the best way to help Greece was not to help out with a huge loan, but to invest building factories etc. which would provide jobs and income… but maybe I am wrong

        • Melissa

          Dont pay attention to the poor US citizens…they are” good” in judging and at the same time Obama taxes their as*es off and they are massively protesting in wall street LOL

          • Tyroneez

            Athena
            Their not protesting against OBAMA … But at the rich bankers who pay so little tax

      • Galia

        I share your point of vie. The situation is the same in France. We are facing the same worldwide economic crisis.

  • Lmao

    so you are buing more tanks when your country is broke? are you afraid that turky is attacking and rob your banks.. oh wait what there is no money left. greece is just country full of idiots, im having good laugh when you country will be bankrupt in two weeks

    • Alexpapas

      i hope u die in pain…

      • Lmao

        might be but you and your poor country will do it first

        • Alexpapas

          its ok if i know u will die in pain, i will die with a smile..

          • Lmao

            rgr that remember to smile when you see those tanks rolling.. rolling on your home street

          • Greek_kamaki

            The only place those tanks will be rolling will be in Turkey!
            Tell your mom to wash and shave!

          • Anonymous

            Those tanks will not be rolling, since they need reconditioning and then fuel to run. greece has not money for either…

          • Huso

            greece has no money but greece spends other poepoles money. something doenst make sense right here.

          • MfromH

            Why are you having such a big mouth. You should be quiet and full of shame.
            We are working our asses of in Europe and you are hanging in a chair , beeinig bored, and complaining about everything.
            In the rest of Europe people work.. and they work till at least 65 years old. Then we can retire.

            The way you react is not helping your country.
            Start working, give a good example and show the rest of the wordld that we have a wrong picture of the Greek people.

            So. hoppa hopaa, Out of the shade and try to help rebuilding tour country.

            And about your turkish neighbours…
            Their economy is booming.. they are doing great…… you know why……..

            They put their hands aout of their sleeves and work… hard.

          • Sklave

            you seem like the kind of person that works even harder if your master whips you. enjoy your miserable life.

          • Mfrom H

            you are such a sad person…… Big mouths, small brains, no hands.
            Thats how you get in the situation you are in now.

            Don’t think we will keep helping U.

            xx

  • Anonymous

    Abrams are expensive to use and maintain. Have fun paying for them.

  • http://twitter.com/ElHombreMalo ElHombreMalo

    All that talk about Turkey is nonsense. Everyone know real greeks dissapeared long ago, modern day greeks are just greek speaking turks. They should all join togther again :)

    • Greek_kamaki

      We are all joined with your mother, dont you worry!
      She is having a wonderful time!

    • molon labe

      Elhombre malaqueno. I leave in NewYork and i need A spic to cut my lawn grass for a cerveza aday what do you think bueno or no bueno. Okay okay 2 cervazas no mas okey maricon conio cabron tu madre puta.Oh so that you know about N.Y since you know nothing about history capitan el hombre (lol) thats a funny name by the way it fits you silly and stupid character like aglove yea like i was saying in NY if you ever go to a bordelo you will only find your kind there since ther are all spanish. You people have a gift my friend yes you no? yes you do like robrt deniro said in analyse this. asta la vista muchacho

  • Alexpapas

    Portugal also is in economic trouble….but noobody ask them to dismantle the army…
    Arrogant hypocrites…..
    and f*** ing turkish imposters..

    • ben solo

      you gayreek,you think if Turkey wants to attack you you have a little chance?
      1974 why did the turks invade the island?google it,you are chicken run away goats.
      First know the history then talk.

      • Nzarkole

        because some guys made a junda to take out from the cyprus island the defending army that the greek prime minister had secretly sent( and was asked to withdraw but he denied to do so)… ooops i guess u knew that … as for chickens see what happens to the same island right now … the greek part of the island (700000 people) stands against the turkish state (of 70 000 000 people) … no airforce no navy no access to american weapons … are these the chickens and the run away goats u r talking about ???? doesn t seem like it at all

      • molon labe

        see below

  • Hhh

    So damn stupid!
    Why sould I pay your f.king tanks with my taxmoney?

    //Angry finn

    • Nzarkole

      you don t … send your tanks to defend the eu borders … even if greece is going to be out of the eurozone . it will still be in european union . that means common borders common foreign policy … also these tanks is a gift from usa … you dont pay nothing for them … uncle sam does … the question is why such a gift now …. what s going on and they gift us those tanks now and not before we buy 2billion euro leo from germany … propably the americans see something that nobody else is able to see

    • Leonidas

      Please don’t get angry, you might get sad, and then kill yourself, I understand that the suicide rate in Finland is very high.

      //Concerned Greek

      • Anonymous

        In greece people will not have time for suicide since they will be killed in the riots of the streets before they ever get to think about suicide.

        • Leonidas

          My friend, listen, I’m a Greek living in the Diaspora, and I travel back to Greece every year to see my family,This year September, I was in Athens, Salonica and I spent a few days on the islands of Santorini and Cephalonia. It was magnificent. No problems at all very peaceful. I had a really great time. I met a lot of people from the UK and USA and they were also very happy. Greece is a great destination for Europeans, please come and see for yourself. This myth that Greeks are lazy is unfair, as Greeks know how to work hard, sure we have some lazy people, but all nations have lazy people. Our biggest problem is that we do not pay Taxes, but that is changing now with the new Tax Laws and the other reforms. We are looking for loans not hand outs. Do not underestimate the Greek people, we have been around for a very long time and we have survived bigger problems than this. We will also survive this and we will pay back our loans. Remember no country is perfect we all have our problems. We have financial problems and the Fins have psychological problems ……. Ok I’m joking take it easy, remember you guys started the insults on this blog. Good Night!

          • Alexandros Drake

            Leonidas I as a Greek had enough of being told to grow up to become a waiter for foreign tourists. They can stay in their ugly-weathered countries for all I care. If as a nation we focused on developing in the industrial and the sea-line trade sector instead instead of dreaming about opening a souvenir shop or a tavern or a hotel in some island we would be way better today. I don’t give a crap about tourism and neither should any of us. This is why the foreigners never respect us. Whenever the find a Greek he always goes like “heeeey paaaal come to Greece its so beautiful you gotta see it”. Well no. Stay there, go to Turkey. We HAVE TO grow out of this tourist bullshit and find out lost way. We should have universities here producing in all fields of science and research with all that history behind us, we could really do it. In the initial EU plan Greece was supposed to be a cultural center of Europe. Not a fucking casino/family resort for cheap european tourists.

      • Hesanainen

        Wow you arrogant pricks! You have every reason to be far sadder than every Finnish or other Northern European ever needs to be. You’re broke and only living by the grace of the charity of others. I would be a little bit more modest if I were you. It doesn’t matter if you like it or not but you are in no position to criticize others. Just be thankful for the help you’re getting. You need to eat quite a slice of humble pie.

        • Leonidas

          Chill my friend, and calm down, don’t take things so seriously,I’m just giving back a bit of stick in response to the stick we have being getting. Europe and Greece will survive this problem and things will improve for all. Greece is changing (being forced to change) which I believe is a good thing in the long run. Greece has fundamental structural problems in the economy (Taxation being one of them). Its not about being lazy. There are plenty Greeks in your northern countries,and lets be honest laziness is not a Greek trait. we know how to work hard and make money. But it takes a shock like this to initiate reform and changes in Greece that is long overdue. Remember the Greeks themselves are paying dearly for their mistakes and reform is hard. Northern Europe is lending Greece money not donating it. Also don’t forget the Greek people have bought Billions of Euros worth of products from our northern friends during the good years . And trust me when things come right we will buy again. Although we have every reason to feel sad, it is not in our nature to feel and act sad, we are a positive people, despite our problems. And no sir, we are also like you, a proud people that will not accept charity, we ask for your help (a line of credit during this difficult time ) but not your charity, we are not starving. Now some positives, Our maritime fleet is one of the biggest in world and growing, we have plenty sun and wind, and people are talking about Greece being a Green Energy producer for Europe. Potential Gas and Petroleum in our seas. The gas pipeline coming from Turkey. The Strategic Alliance with Israel (very exited about that). Great Olive oil and other good food production. Great tourism potential, (Had a good year this year despite our problems). A massive diaspora living in all the corners of the world, with many of us at the top of our fields of expertise. Just to name a few things. Greece is a country with great potential, and I believe if the EU and the Greeks handle the current mess in the proper way, things will improve.

        • Tyroneez

          @ hesanainen
          If u really are a fin / and not Turkish agent
          The fact that you are mentioning the superiority of the northern Europeans / instead of discussing the economic facts about all this …
          Proves that you are a racist pig …
          And for your information GREECE IS EUROPE and everything it stands for comes from Greece ..:
          It is Finland that is not European … Even your language is not European … Neather is your ignorant attitude …
          If any country should not be in the EU … It is Finland …
          Where were you when Greece was fighting ALONE to save Europe in 1940 ?????
          The whole world could see who the real enemy was in 1940 … But instead of inviting the Russians in to keep Hitler at bay … You decided to fight the Russians by proxy … And On behalf of Hitler …
          And then spent the whole war Hiding behind the NAZIS coattails … And supporting HITLERS 3 year genocidal siege of St peterburg …
          Your just a jumped up little state , that was created out of a Russia province … Anyway …
          Your lucky Stalin was having a good day in 1945 … And that he didn’t insist on sweeping you all away …
          And if it wasn’t for the ancient Hellenic principles of democracy and the rights of small nation states …
          Even your friend Hitler would have eventually deported all of you back to Mari-Stan and komi-Stan in the Urals were you belong … Where the great russian nation who you hate so much still maintains these republics for yOur worthless ass …
          An imposter european nation that you are …
          It’s a pity Greece didn’t veto your entry into the EU … On the grounds that you are not even European When you was begging to join …

          • Stanvanhoucke

            tyroneez,

            are you sure you are not an agent provocateur working for the americans? you sure sound like one.

          • Tyroneez

            Dear stanvanhoucke
            I am a British born first generation defendant of poor Greek Cypriot immigrants …
            Non of my statements are pro American or anti- European …
            In fact my last comment above was pro stalins pre and post ww11 european Foreign policy …
            How is that interpreted by you as pro American …???
            I always oppose racist remarks on here and any other forums …
            I always stick to the facts …
            I am opposed to turkish foreign policy … Be sued empire building and hegemony … Is a destabilising factor in any region ..
            I am just as opposed to china trying to dominate Asia ( Tibet , sinkiang , Mongolia , Korea , Vietnam, Cambodia ) by force of arms …
            Just as much as japan in WWII or Nazi Germany or fascist Italy …
            So obviously I am going to oppose any neo-ottoman imperial schemes … Especially as it directly impinges on Greeces sovereign rights …
            As to mr hesanianens … Uncalled for , Obvious and thinly veiled racist remarks , with regard to southern Europeans …
            All because of a short term cash flow problem ??
            Well he only got what he deserved …
            And that’s if he really is Finnish …

  • http://www.presidentofgalaxy.com Daniel

    Is it 1:st of April?

  • Pawe_FIN

    Greece faked theirs economy statistics for getting involved in Euro and now Greece have almost destroyed whole Euro-areas economies. Thats true and scandalous! Okay, basic Greek citizen wasn’t aware of that, but still you must try to pay your debt.

    It’s ethically wrong that while we are trying to help you, you are wasting your money to tanks. If you don’t have money, you can’t get everything you wan’t. You have to work for paying the debt and after it you can think about your tanks.

    And really, I like Greeks culture and history, but these are serious things, when the whole Europe is falling.

    • Nzarkole

      we sure have to pay the whole debt and if we can t as much as we can but i assure you we wont … because greek leaders are idiots and incapable .. their only gift is their name and their origin from big political families .. looking at the numbers of greece we can do far better than we do …. if we had your leaders in our goverment then we could pay the debt . but we don t have them

      • Pawe_FIN

        It’s sure that Greece can’t pay its debt oneself, unfortunately.

        Problem is that in democracy it is very difficult to do something for paying the debt, because people don’t accept decreasing standard of living.

        Our leaders… hmm. Theirs also lot of politicians who don’t accept saving actions in Finland too. They cry in media that government wants to cut pensions and so.. people don’t understand that sometimes have to tighten belts. Our biggest party(which have prime minister now) wants to stop increasing the debt of Finland, but all others resist it. One good thing in Finland is that here isn’t much corruption. People are honest and media grills all who have corruption suspect.

        Just watched a little documentary about Greece and one protester sent his middle finger to our prime minister. I understand him but still I’m proud of Finnish who don’t accept all economy help without criticism. :)

        • Nzarkole

          yes greece can do it if you look carefully the numbers ..it wont make it because of the lack of leadership… expenses for paying public servants salaries from 11billions (2001) rised up to 23billions (2009) …. the measures that are taking now and peopleis rising is less than that.. and they dont cut anything from the public sector 2 years now ….they fire noone … … the private part of greek economy has tighten belts many years now … the public sector continues the party … as for the demonstrations they are very small 5000-20000 people in a city of 4.000.000 !!!! and most of them are by public servants … as for the finger the guy who did it is an idiot

    • molon labe

      Pawe you seem like a nice guy. But i have to inform you that greece represents only 3%of the european economy and there for is not the cause of the european crisis . The european monetary system is made up in such a way that only benefits germany. and that is why these days even countries like italy spain and to some extend france are having financial problem. Even if greece was to leave the eurozone the problem with other small european countries would continue to exist. Hopefully it wont affect your country but i would not hold my breath. Besr regards . A greek friend

  • Nzarkole

    no it s 5th of october and the turkish pm is shouting for the drilling that cyprus is doing and no eu leader is saying anything .. if you see the spending for buing weapons for the last 30 years u will see that more than the bept would be less 40% of gdp … we also have to admit that our politicians are idiots and most of them corrupted … and if the spending of buying armaments was zero they will also steal the money by other ways

  • Nzarkole

    expences %gdp

  • Eeesee

    Tanks sure seem like a great idea for a country that’s made up of islands. Ha ha who made this stupid decision?

  • Panos

    Check on these official figures before bullshitting everyone

    http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_03/20110309_PR_CP_2011_027.pdf

    According to 2010 figures from NATO, Greek defense expenditures are down by 4.6%, 18.0% and 3.5% for 3 consecutive years (2008,2009,2010 respectively).

    There is a further significant reduction underway in 2011.

    An even further significant reduction is expected in the coming years.

    http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/the-troika-calls-for-a-79-reduction-in-costs-by-2015-for-the-armed-forces/

    And you still talk like this is not enough!!!

    This is something of the outmost importance for the Greeks. Sovereignty and security of the Greek people is at stake here and of course you could not care less.

    However it is apparent that Greeks sacrifice even this essential issue and take the risk of getting into serious trouble, in order to get straight with those who help them and return loans.

    But instead of showing some respect you keep criticizing over a free gift of military equipment from the US and you behave as money-corrupted banksters. That is outrageous!!!

    Long live the EU! No dollar is not our god, the euro is! So, long live the euro!!!

    • Sanni

      no please not. Long live the EU? – how can democrats, want to give up one right after the other, to a not democratic EU government

      • Jo

        He was sarcastic.

    • molon labe

      Panos take it easy with the euro long live bullshit.lets not praise the europeans so much they are all looking after their own interests as they should do.

  • Anonymous

    good luck Greece, what ever happens.

    • Anonymous

      whilst here, when will the greek,turkish and armenian peoples
      bury the errors of the past and forge a trust ?
      is it even possible ?

      • Eaiea

        Majority of Turkish people doesn’t even care about Greeks. But for them, Turkish hate is their raison d`etre

        • Anonymous

          they would propably say the same………….:)

          and nothing changes.

          and mankind will have to keep buying tanks for ever.

      • john

        When the turks stop trying to kill them

    • Johanna

      Thank you! It’s needed

  • Anonymous

    The Romans used to say “Greek credit” and they meant pay cash, so long time ago and so little has changed.
    Maybe EU should sell Greece to the Turks and use the money to pay of the banks that Greece owe money to.

  • Anonymous

    Well, they are bancrupt but have money to buy weapons? Corruption has slowly reached its peak and the arrogance of those in charge too. I am just wondering what form the reaction of the population will be but simply demonstrating against this systemic theft of the few at the expense of the many seems not to achieve a lot, at least until now.

  • michael

    i don’t care what our brainwashed “friends” from the e.u. say (if they are not turks in disguise that is), national security comes first. we have already cut down our defence budget, and quite dangerously so, if we consider that our neighbours are arming themselves to the teeth.
    we will never apologize to anyone about our right to self defence, let alone some idiots who raise their opinions without knowing the reality of the region we live in.
    fact is, if the greek defence forces weren’t a deterrent, turks would have already invaded us in thrace or split the aegean in half and absolutely noone would come to our aid, so why don’t you back the #### up? frankly i don’t give a damn if you get your loans back, reading some of the comments here made me realize how susceptible to propaghanda people are. so greece is responsible for all europe’s problems, bad lazy greeks who buy weapons because they have nothing better to do with the money we give them blah blah blah….. man you shouldn’t get a cent back.

    • Amazed

      My friend, a single city in Turkey has more population than your whole country. If they wanted to invade, they would have already and there would be no deterrent to stop them. I’m not arguing with you don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying that you wasting your time thinking about a war that will never come in this day and age.

      • Tyroneez

        Dear amazed
        Deterrent has nothing to do with population , and you know it ..
        Israel has a tiny population … But a large and strong military ..
        The Greek military is 3/4 the size of the Turkish military ..
        That is a sizeable deterrent …
        Maintaining this near parity is crucial to the peace and security of the region ..
        It doesn’t matter that the population of turkey is 7 times that of Greece … It’s military strength is virtually the same …and it will remain the same no matter what the cost to the Greek people … Because this has Bern our homeland for 4000 years and we will never surrender it to anyone neither to Mussullini neither to Hitler … And certainly not to Turkey …molon lave

  • Wim Heitinga

    Greece should buy tanks with money raised from Greek taxes. Oh wait…..they don’t wanna pay tax.

  • Wim Heitinga

    Let the Greeks pay taxes first. Then they can buy whatever they want!

  • Wim Heitinga

    Let the Greeks pay taxes first. Then they can buy whatever they want!

  • Gratisgeld

    Yeah buy your tanks, the German/Dutch tax payers are glad to help!

    • Johanna

      Why dont you complain to your governement first for spending your tax money for Greece?

    • molon labe

      Thanks much appreciated.

  • Greet

    Greece, what a backward country. The last time they had power was before the Romans took over the place…

    • Johanna

      I guess you never ever attended history lessons at school

    • molon labe

      Did you say backwards?That is exactly how the greeks like it ditto. First correct comment that i’vread all day. I guess you know from personal experience.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jurgen-Meijer/100000758311718 Jurgen Meijer

    This rages me bigtime, my shitty government is trying to save Greece from their own-caused corruption, and the first thing they do is buy tanks. I hope our government officials will block this and not give money to Greece, let them fix their own problems.

  • Dutch

    Judging by the comments from the Greek in this discussion, I think we – people from the functioning nations of Europe – would actually do them a great favour by leaving them to their own (non-existing) devices and stop any financial support from now on… Something we should have realised 2 years ago…. In the relevant part of Europe, we may be so stupid as to keep on supporting Greece financially, but we’re still intelligent enough to keep the Greek issues well separated from the Turkish issue – and we don’t expect Greece to defend us against the Ottoman hordes. A country that isn’t capable of running itself certainly isn’t capable of fending for itself, or for the allies it’s been taking advantage of for the last ten or so years….

    • Leonidas

      Jy dink te veel vir jou self en jou land. Hulle is nie diere nie. Hulle is mense net soos julle. Ek het albei Holland en Greikaland besoek en julle het a kak plek, en die mense is koud, maar Greikeland is so mooi, en die mense is so gasvry.
      Jy meneer is onbeskof en baie verwaand.

    • Tyroneez

      @Dutch above
      You little hypocrite , all your wealth comes from Indonesia …
      And from your gas fields … Which if it wasn’t for greeks bravery … Would belong to Germany today and you would be a slave worker … Speaking german and making the Nazi salute …
      Yes we will defend Europe from the Turks … Just as we have done for thousands of years …
      Even if we are stabbed in the back by the west …
      Just as you are trying to do again now …over a loan which you are borrowing from the markets at 3% and lending to Greece at an extortionate 5% … Your still making a 2% profit you ignorant fool … 2% a year on euros 350 billion is a lot of money …
      And defending your independence from the Nazis and the turks .
      Well you can have that for free …
      We Greeks are not as money grabbing as you Dutch , it seems ..
      Always demanding your pound of flesh … You are a disgrace to your country men , who gave their lives for freedom , without any thought for money

  • Blah

    Well, the Greek should say “Thank you” to Berlin Junta which stole the money from the german people and gave it to the Junta in Athens. If you, the people of Greece, were killed by tanks, say “Thank you!” to Fuhrer Angela Merkel and her gang! But german people are with you (we fight against Merkel’s regime as you fight your regime).

  • Gbhamish

    If all the Greeks commenting here, would spend their time working and paying taxes instead of assing around, the whole discussion would be obsolete.

    • Jo

      And you are probably a hard working man who can’t spare 5 min to write a nonsense right?

    • Johanna_zapantis

      I wish it was that simple my dear! Many of these Greeks have lost their jobs, I am unemployed, besides it is after midnight. I cant sleep with all these problems here and WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE?

  • CptnObvious

    You can buy what you want, but buy it with your own money. Don’t expect others to lend you any.

    • Sanni

      People are the same everywhere – they borrow money to get the things the want – I want it now, I want it fasat, fast food generation

  • Sacc12356

    We should let these spoiled little children go bankrupt

  • R. van Vuuren

    Excellent idea to spend non-greek money on tanks. What about sorting out your financial mess first? Besides, we wintnessed the ‘Greek-defence’ against agressors before…

    The Turks are as agressive as their opponents. There is no place for internal NATO agression. Grow up and mind your domestic problems first, before pointing fingers at others.

    It is very sorry that my tax money will be spent on hellenic tanks. We should have let you gone bankrupt in the first place. At least my money would be going to dutch banks, instead of Greek weapons.

  • R. van Vuuren

    Excellent idea to spend non-greek money on tanks. What about sorting out your financial mess first? Besides, we wintnessed the ‘Greek-defence’ against agressors before…

    The Turks are as agressive as their opponents. There is no place for internal NATO agression. Grow up and mind your domestic problems first, before pointing fingers at others.

    It is very sorry that my tax money will be spent on hellenic tanks. We should have let you gone bankrupt in the first place. At least my money would be going to dutch banks, instead of Greek weapons.

    • Apling

      “….to dutch banks.” – The banks are the big winners. Before countries go bancrupt, banks should go bankcrupt.

      • Natasja (The netherlands)

        if the country goes bankrupt, the banks are bankrupt and al economy in the world will go bankrupt. I say lets get bankrupt, so we can go back to understand what life is all about. helping, loving and providing each other as people.

        • makis44

          “A private central bank issuing the public currency is a greater menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army…We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.”

          Thomas Jefferson

      • Ckritzinger

        when the banks go bankrupt people lose all there assets, there is no money for investment, no jobs. Why you think the government is trying to bail out the banks. If the the banks go down we all go down. You pay interest depending on your solvency. There is only one way to stay out of trouble, no creditworthiness no money. And by the way who has the biggest debt, the countries because the economic management of the government is poor. Politicians are buying votes by promising benefits which the voter has to pay himself anyway. As soon as polititians talk about cutting benetifts they are out of business. Our problem is limited economic expertise and it can’t be learned in an environment of total care.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lennart-Banis/100001074597240 Lennart Banis

      so agree with u! It will continue untill we all say STOP!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Bear/100001228703163 Geo Bear

      My country Hellas (and not Greece) , last 50 years is forced bying American aircrafts and helicopters, German frigates and tanks , french submarines etc.
      Is the only country in Europe in danger by a ”friend,, of NATO group named Tourkey .
      By the way even USA even European community guarantee our safety, cause this would stop us to bye all these weapons (by them).
      For bying all these my country , is debting for 50 years by the countriew that sell us the weapons.
      And the goverments that we have, are sponsored by the E.C and USA for keeping this status for ever.
      S;o please , its obviuw that we dont have the choise to choose, the choise to change.
      Last time we did it (1945) british and American military forces burned us alive.
      Please note that Napalm Bombs are used first time to us at 1945. (Before vietnam).
      So keep your hate for the international banking and military system and not for my people. 50 years they work for bying weapons and paying INTERESTs of the debts.

      • Oscar19681

        I,m on greece side when there ever will be a war between greece and turkey. Greece has a rich history and has human right law,s Turkey just give us lots of turks to fill the EU with and they never heard of the geniva convention or human rights. Fuck turkey i,m even suprised they are a nato member in the first place since there president was once part of a islamic extremic group. So long live greece and away with turkey..

        • Shy

          Get off your daddy’s lap you racist malaka!

      • Teneke

        No, this is not true.

        Last 50 years you are buying weapons to bribe countries to force your agenda against your neighbors.

        And napalm was first used on Macedonians in north of your country…

        • Blog

          Well played..

        • Makos

          Macedonians are Greeks of the northern part of Greece so you both have right as napalm bombs where first used in northern Greece mainly the region of Macedonia against Greek communist guerillas.

    • makis44

      THE LIES
      GREECE “IS THE MOST COUNTRY IN DEBT OF ALL OVER THE WORLD”.
      GREECE “BY ITSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS FINANCIAL COLLAPSE”.
      GREECE IS THE “BLACK SHEEP” OF EU.
      BANKS AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTES ARE THE «RESCUER HEROES” OF HUMANITY.

      THE POINTS
      THE MOST RICH COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD ARE THE FAR AWAY THE MOST IN DEBT COUNTRIES TOO (USA, GERMANY, JAPAN etc).
      EU WAS FULL BRIEFED ALL ABOUT OF GREEK FINANCIAL CRISIS SINCE YEARS BEFORE.
      EU (GERMANY, FRANCE etc) WERE DOING THE BLIND IN ORDER TO CONTINUES ILLEGAL GAMES UNDER THE TABLE MATCHED WITH THE GREEK DIRTY POLITICIANS AGAINST THE GREEKS AND EU CITIZENS TOO.
      THE SAME WERE DOING BY THE BANKERS AS WELL.

      “OMERTA’’
      MONEY IS EXCLUSIVE AS A PRIVATE GOOD AND ITS PRODUCTION IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF BANKERS.
      CENTRAL BANKS, FINANCIAL AND MONETARY INSTITUTES, ALL AROUND THE WORLD ARE PRIVATE.
      THE WHOLE WORLD IS UNDER HOSTAGE TO THE BANKERS.

      THE TRUE.
      GET BACK THE MONEY PRINTING FROM BANKERS AND GIVE IT BACK TO THE PUBLIC AS A PUBLIC GOOD.
      GET BACK THE CENTRAL BANKS AND SHARE AN ACTION OF BANK TO ALL PEOPLE.
      WE ARE MUCH MORE, BILLIONS TO GET UNDER OF PURE, AND THEY ARE ALSO TOO LESS, ONLY SOME HUNDREDTH THOUSANDS, TO REACT.
      GET BACK THE DEMOCRACY WITH THE REAL AND HISTORICAL MEANING, AS OUR ANCIENT PARENTS IT HAD BEEN EXPRESSED BY PLATO, ARISTOTLE, KLEISTHENES ETC.

      GREEKS (HELLENES), PEOPLE OF THE WORLD STAY INFORMED, RISE UP AND GET YOUR LIFE BACK.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Insane.Tifa Shay Trayson

        Those words catched me. I’m born in Greece, living in Germany right now.. and some PPL give me a hard time . But still: This is my life and I’m so proud to be greek!

        • http://twitter.com/RedEyedPharoah Pleiadian

          someone NOT liking a Greek person because the THEY (politicians & business people in high society (the lowest!) in their country suck? Duh. Eyyylaaa! I live in Berlin, NEW YORKER! Feeling Greeks! They so kraazy! lol Guess its as DUMB as many naive peeps ALL over hating Americans, cause the US Govt’s wishywashy ways! Dumb. Stop the hate! Change the govts!

          • Nzarkole

            bravo !!!!

      • Grwsg

        its your own fault – you want all the social things insured by the country – you have to pay.

      • Fu3kclan

        Me boreíte na grápso̱ af̱tó to schólio aisthánomai mísos apó esás nomízo̱ elli̱nikoú laoú eínai éna megálo agó̱na , ó̱ste an thélei kápoios na pli̱ktrologí̱sete éna schólio malákas ópo̱s af̱tí̱ touláchiston mi̱n misoún tous Amerikanoús , ópo̱s to lípos kó̱lo !

    • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

      put your money in your @ss..we do not want them..and you do not “give” us money..you borrow us money..do you know the defference between give and borrow? is greek traitors politicians fault..they bring to us imf and the same time russians gave us money chipest money and traitor papandreu said no to russians..europeans wants to use the greek debt crise to take our oil and natural gas..but this is not going to happen..and we not buying the tanks..we take them for freeeeeee!!!

      • B.

        Nothing is free, that’s the evil about capitalism.

        • CKritzinger

          Nothing is free, somebody wilAymara to pay the price. We will pay a high price in the future for ignoring this simple fact. The currency union a death birth.

      • http://profiles.google.com/patrick.kanne patrick kanne

        we “give” you money because we’re all very much aware that you’ll never be able to pay back all that “borrowed” money.
        And as for your gas/oil and other natural resources; if they were worth “taking” you wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. But alas, the trickle of olive oil and the fart you just let out is not really worth taking.

        But you’re attitude is dully noted, I’ll think of you when I’ll explain to my kids we won’t go on vacation this year since “we” needed to save your ungrateful @sses..

        Also, YOUR incompetent politicians and corrupt system shouldn’t be MY problem.

        • a European taxpayer

          DITO !!! :-)

          • D Nixon

            Fuck Off

        • Karbttf

          i agree my firend that corruption and incompetent polticians isn’t your problem but you should know that u.s.a. id often regarded one of the most corupt countries in the world. you won’t be going vacation this year? i don’t know if i have money to live by the end of the year….

          • http://profiles.google.com/patrick.kanne patrick kanne

            Why should I care how corrupt the USA is in this context? I’m European, from Holland, I don’t give a flying fuck about the USA. My tax money isn’t buying out Americans, it’s buying out Greeks, who then subsequently spit in my face like our friend VLAXOPODAS over there.

            As for you not having money, go get it from those peeps who top the list of people who still need to pay their taxes:
            http://www.gsis.gr/debtors/fp.html

        • Redengamiesai

          You get to stay one summer at home, half greek population work much more than you and they cant pay the new taxes (that means they also remain without electricity sometimes), and the other half is without jobs. And what i say is the truth, just research and you will see. Don’t stay on what the medias tell you. You cry about a vacation when 1.000.000 people are without a job since you began to give money (fact). Also check about the greek navy to see how unworthy this land is. If it has no value why everyone is starting to buy pieces of it I wonder?

          • http://profiles.google.com/patrick.kanne patrick kanne

            “half greek population work much more than you ”
            Oh really? I’d be surprised. I’ve been to your country and have seen what you people call work. I’m not impressed.

    • makis44

      Fatal Errors, Deadly..

      The euro, the most dangerous currency in the world, differs little from a structured bond – as represented by seventeen countries among enemies with large differences in their economies and poor leadership ….

      TABLE II: Open and Hidden Public Debt as a percentage of GDP.

      Country Open and Hidden Public Debt

      USA 659%
      U.K. 613%
      FRANCE 347%
      GERMANY 335%
      AUSTRIA 258%
      SPAIN 103%

      Ref: Bank Wegelin, Swiss.

      As we conclude easily from Table II, there is a ticking time bomb in the western system, which is not in the eurozone, as in Britain and especially in the U.S. Both France and Germany follow with distance, while Austria is in a better position – with Spain having the smallest total debt …

      In each case, three points are particularly important:

      (a) A huge debt of Anglo-Saxon region – U.S. ie the UK. Especially the total U.S. debt, estimated at 90 trillion $ or so, is much larger than global GDP – and the superpower does not seem to choose the path of austerity, with incalculable effects on world peace (and for social cohesion in the U.S., and for maintaining the U.S. ‘federation’ – ie being the maximum.
      (b) Too little debt of Spain, which is much healthier than the eurozone countries such as France and Germany – despite the condemnation of the financial markets (though other than unemployment, as well as the collapse of building activity, municipalities are in very bad economic situation – especially Barcelona).
      (c) The relatively large debt of both France and Germany – which is not healthy, as we all know, so it is able to rescue both the rest of the Eurozone, and banks.

      With specific regard to Germany, perhaps we should emphasize that from the 82 million residents of the 26% are over 60 years, 20% are over 65, while 5% are over 80. A large part we entering a period of retirement (the average age of Germans are now 44 and will grow to 51 within the next few years) – which means that it will stop paying taxes and levies, with adverse effects on funds of their state ….

      However, Greece can and must do it – after having the opportunity, because of the enormous wealth, possibly with new allies to survive the great storm, which will soon erupt in the world ….

      VASILI VILLIARDOS (copyright)
      Athens, 09 Oct. 2011
      viliardos@kbanalysis.com

      Full article (in Greek) at
      http://www.casss.gr/PressCenter/Articles/2448.aspx

      • Amazed

        Jesus. It just amazes me how Greeks still blame the Turks for everything even for their bankruptcy. Lazyness was your downfall and you kept thinking that as long as you hated the Turks, the world would keep taking care of you.

        Here are some facts for you:
        1- A single city in Turkey has more population than Greece itself. If they wanted to invade and conquer your country, they would have already.
        2-Greece has been teasing Turkey for decades doing stupid things like sending warships to little Turkish islands and placing their flags on them while Turkey just rolled its eyes.
        3-Turkish troops came to Cyprus because Turkish people were being slaughtered as a way of ethnic cleansing of Cyprus to have just a Greek population. Turkey had the right to defend its citizens in Cyprus in the event that they were attacked and this law was in a treaty. They weren’t just going to sit there while their people were literally thrown in meat grinders.
        4-Greeks are probably the most paranoid people on earth. Constantly thinking that the Turks are planning to invade their country while most Turks visit Greece for a weekend vacation.
        5-Greece spends the most money on propaganda and lobbying against the Turks. Hundreds of millions are spent on anti-Turkish propaganda (Maybe this is why they are going bankrupt?)
        6-When Greece is mentioned to Turks, they call them their neighbors while when Turks are mentioned to Greeks, they call them their enemy.
        7-Constantinople was a part of the Roman Empire. So calling it their old capital shows the level of their historical knowledge. Besides, it’s been a part of many Empires throughout the centuries so if the Greeks wanted this city so bad, why didn’t they point their fingers to these other empires and not only the Ottomans?

        Turks don’t want your country people. They have other important things to think about while you think of nothing but the Turks and wars 24/7. Turks are hard working people. The country is one of the most modern countries in Europe and its industry keeps growing.
        As you keep spending millons on anti-Turkish propaganda, people from all over the world keep visiting Turkey for vacation and see for themselves as to what’s true and what’s not.

        It is also very ironic that while the facts are outthere, I know someone will find some colorful words to reply to my post and nevertheless keep pointing fingers to Turkey.

        • george

          HAHAHA! sorry sir but you don’t know anything…you are completely wrong.only in 2011 more than 100 turkish f16′s endered illegally to the Greek flying area but we didn’t say anything.tukey has been provocating Greece for over 40 years. And did you know that 2/4 of the turkish population can’t even read and have never gone to school?? So what kind of country can it be??? I really can’t believe how wrong you are so pls open any historical book about the last 200 years and then you may get an idea about who really turks are

          • neosinan

            It is obvious yu dont know about what happened in Turkey in last decades.Beside a grup of Kurd (less than %5)There is nobody illiterate Also in Treaty of Lausanne These area isnt Greek land but Real Issue started1947 When Greek took the control of Dodecanese.Traty of lousanne and Paris peace thready wasnt fit on each other.Basicly Both Greeks and Turks are Right to leatest Tread for their self.

        • Gerry

          OBVIOUS A TURK SPEAKING IN DISGUISE, KEEP ON SINGING YOUR OWN PRAISES AND PLEASE WHO MADE CHIEF PSYCOLOGIST ON GREEK AFFAIRS WITH HISTORICAL ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND A COUPLE OF OTHERS WHOSE IN DENIAL

    • Npapalouca

      What you mean pointing fingers to others.Come on at least be realistic.We all saw your dutch point of view on Cyprus,Turkey and FYROM sorry for the M.Beasides we need those tanks to put them on the borders with Turkey.Spending 18 months there doing my military service on the Hellenic Army i think they might be usefull.in a possible war.And keap in mind that stiill in every Greek s head there is allways room for the MEGALI IDEA.and the recopture of our capital Constantinople.By the way my familly after years of continuit work owns three appartments in Athens,one in seaside Loutraki and the paternal home and estate in a village in Peloponese where we come from and two cars.Sorry for the details but i wanted to give an inside image of the matter.It is not your fault to be misinformed.That is not surprises me.Some fools even say that ancient greek language has little to do with totay greek and all world professors and scholars suggest that is 90 percent and up the same.Even an elementery school student who has never tought ancient can easily read an inscription in the Acropolis or in the museum.So we kind laght if someone from the northen europea tribes says sometimes these nonsence.Friendly Nikolas Athens

    • Karbttf

      first of all, you propably have no idea of history at all. since your neighbor has the capability of becoming really agressive you have to be ready to defend yourself. I agree that your money, neither mine should be spent on tanks or any other careless military expenditure. and of course you have no idea what kind of people turks are. we sure want to have our problems solved first but you shouldn’t talk about pointing fingers: vietnam, grenada, iraq, afghanistan and many other cases where your country did not only pointed fingers but touched too.and you talk about bankrupcy. you clearly don’t have problem if 1o million people starve but what if your country goes bankrupt? our debt is nothing compared to yours.
      p.s. when you have neighbors like canada and mexico you don’t have to worry about real national threats now do you?

    • molon labe

      Oh come on mr van Vuuuuuuureeeeeeen Just think of it as a long term investment that may pay back dividents. In case an aggresor decides to invade your country god forbid.And since we all know the last time your country was invaded in less than a day,those lazy greeks that pushed the italians all the way back to france can bail your asses out. What do you think now?Hmm i knew you would see my point of view. and thank you for realising what good people that these lazy greeks can be.And try and get a suntan when you visit our beatiful country.Because every time i see a dutch it reminds me of a greek yogurt and ithink i may have had too many.best regards and dont forget to write.

    • Athena

      first of all its not YOUR MONEY its a LOAN not a gift!!! in fact it is a LOAN WITH A HIGH INTEREST!! Greece was attacked by the international markets and u super ”powerfull” countries of the north had enough time to dealwith is before its too late and the situation would urge for an inevitable BAIL OUT and Greece going under IMF supervision..so u are also responsible for this because YOUR GOVERNMENTS KNEW THAT GREECE WASNT READY TO ENTER THE EUROZONE (just like italy , portugal and spain werent ready) and they nothing to STOP IT!! in fact in Germany although they knew it they encouraged it because they wanted to avoid paying up the REPARATIONS THEY OWE TO GREECE SINCE WW2…80 billion euros..They are lending us money from the money they OWE US..

      second of all..If Greece gives up in buying weapons are u and ur dutch banks coming to take turks out of Cyprus??? prevent them from violating human rights ? from spiting and mocking the european union and talking arrogantly??

      bottomline is that when u lend someone else with a high interest only YOU are gonna be benefited in the long run..and not the guy who borrows money..(Greeks never wanted to borrow money in the first place..we know all this is a plan so our oil, gas , uranium and gold will be sold in very low prices…) we prefer default and i pray my country will be out of the eurozone soon…

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000421042083 Stan van Houcke

        i quote:

        ‘second of all..If Greece gives up in buying weapons are u and ur dutch banks coming to take turks out of Cyprus??? prevent them from violating human rights ? from spiting and mocking the european union and talking arrogantly??’

        hold it friend, the turks are in cyprus since the fascist greek colonels regime attacked the island. the same fascist regime which suppressed and even tortured greek citizens who were in favor of democracy, thereby violating all kinds of human rights. so please, don’t raise your voice. and the turks are not mocking the european union, it is the other way around. and therefore the turks finally decided that they will look to the east, become a regional power, and go their own way. and right they are.

        • Melissa

          the fascist Greek regime attacked the island?? buhahahha..omg i smell a turk here..oh well only a turk would give such an ignorant and hillarious answer..Look dude Greeks would never attack Cyprus cause Greeks would never attack OTHER GREEKS..is that crystal clear? the free part of Cyprus today has the same national anthem Greece has…EOKA was fighting for annexing Cyprus tO Greece..90% of the people in Cyprus (including some Turks had voted YES to that…when the turks attacked Cyprus there was NO Greek army in the island apart from 400 hoplites who literaly butchered 3000 turks within two days…there are endless testimonies by both Greeks and turks on that…turks occupy northern part of cyprus because the brits and americans wanted to involve them in the game and prevent this strategicaly positioned island to be annexed to Greece..then again this doesnt change the fact that Cyprus today remains 70% Greek and still refuses to unite with the socalled TRNC nobody recognizes except mama turkey which is filling the island with colonists…and yes turkey is a regional…..joke…Thats what we see here sorry…a country with a GDP of 12000 while ”bankrupt ”Greece has a GDP of 27000 per capita… a country where turkish soldiers cant step foot in Kurdistan or else they ll get killed…a country which bullies Cyprus not to search for natural gas and at the same time begs Israel to apologize for the murder of 11 turks yet both Israel and Cyprus ignores them..well thats not exactly a regional power mate…be a realist please

          • Tyroneez

            Be sta vre athina

          • http://stanvanhoucke.blogspot.com/ stan van houcke

            athena,

            you are not a patriot if you defend the fascist colonels regime. you are an idiot who supports in this way the killing and torturing of greeks. go and read your history, you fool.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000421042083 Stan van Houcke

      the dutch establishment consists of a bunch of hypocrites who support the terror of the zionist regime and in the meantime talk all the time about the importance of international law. i am 50 percent dutch and i know that the so called polder model is nothing more than a euphemism for corruption.

    • Gerry

      Whyshould greece going to pay for the worlds mess,better bankcrucy so greece can go forward ,out of the euro .Greece;s 2% european economy is affecting the 98%?.The germans were not complaining when they were selling the greeks tanks and submarines.
      Let them return the gold they took from greece during ww11 and then we might not have to borrow any. Even now the germans are trying to sell greece eurofighters.let see how the greece gas fields being currently discovered are going to affect the geostrategic scenario. Greece must maintain her sovreignhtyIf the americans are giving the tanks away why should greece not take them.The germans are not happy because the stupid greeks wont buy more spare for their german tanks.Greece has become the gateway to europe by millions of arabs.Why should greece be the outerpost for europe for what?.nato what a joke just look what they did in Cyprus

      • Joebloggs

        Ha look what the GREEKS did in Cyprus ! tried to overthrow a legitimate government and murder those who dissented…. you were offerd Cyprus twice and refused on both occasions. There is such a load of arrant crap being spouted here….

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002183076589 George Koulafetis

      its free! Army aid from the united states.
      and the tax money are from the greeks not from you.

    • Makos

      You are so ignorant indeed. You should first look at you own responsibilities as a European citizen (guessing by your name and comment).

      So why did you let the banks become so strong that although being private enterprises people must pay to save them? Why did you let your politicians accept Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain in the eurozone when you (should) perfectly knew they could not hold up to it? Why did you let your government selling “unneeded” weapon systems to Greece while you knew you would have to eventually pay them yourself?

      Eventually, why did you let your government tie itself so much to an economy so vulnerable that also resides in a region so volatile? Even if you accepted the risk why didn’t you do anything to minimize it, by helping boosting the economy of your new partner and by helping creating a safer environment in its region? Why you were so irresponsible at the first place and seek responsibilities by Greeks instead of your government and yourself as a first step?

    • Solinariforever

      To Van Vuuren
      Well, if you have not gotten it yet you ain’t going to get it! Or maybe now you get it that the Dutch are going to be together with the PIGS; well PIGSH (H for Holand!!) READ THE LATEST NEWS!!!! Oh is this Greece’s problem too?
      I wish the Greeks were in your neighbohood too! You are an ignoramous with zip knowkedge of world geopolitics… a poor redneck that as soon as his ass gats cold his problems become the world’s problems.

  • Kevin Stabel

    This is absolutely fantastic. As a european, i’ve seen my goddamn tax money disappear into the sinkhole that is Greece and what do they do with it ?!
    BUY TANKS!

    Thanks guys, really, thanks.

    -Kevin

    • Jo

      Kevin, nobody buys any tanks.

      This is a free offer from the US.

      Regarding defense expenditures there are official figures. There is a tremendous reduction already and even higher reduction underway. You can check them out yourself.

      As for the tax money according to the lending agreement not a single cent goes to any domestic expenditure. ALL of them are strictly meant to pay debts to banks.

  • john

    There have been so many comments on this subject and alot of resentment by those that feel they should not bail out Greece finacially or at the very least tell Greece how it can spend the borrowed money. Firstly, the euro zone countries would not bail out Greece if they thought letting Greece fail would have no repercussions throughout the Eurozone and secondly, how many people who have slated Greece for spending money on unnecessary defence would be willing to bet their own home and possibly their lives (and those of their family) on Turkey not trying to expand it’s borders. Are these people so sure Turkey would not take any agressive action that they would bet their children’s live’s on it or give me the keys and deeds to their house if the Turks take my home AGAIN.

    In simplistic terms if the door locks on your house were broken I am sure you would repair them to keep your family, your self and your belongings safe even if you had to borrow the money. It’s not the same as overpaying yourself or partying on borrowed money. Domestic security is not something that should be negotiable or compromised whether on an individual or national level. The first job of government is to keep it’s people safe, they must not fail on that too.

  • Montelius

    Why don´t we just dismantle the war industry itself? And then don´t make war!
    Thats a neat amount of money to spend at more civilized things like investigation, schools, colleges, hospitals, social care and so on :-)
    All military personel goes into civil service, to do something constructive for once.

  • Victor Petri

    What happened? The old tanks had to go in an early retirement?

  • http://twitter.com/Bobo_PK Jim Panse

    That’s how the U.S gouverment refinances it’s armaments groups. Lending U.S $ to Greece, which will never pay them back. And who pays for it? The US citizens! Open your eyes, you are getting robbed by your own gouverment. Be happy it’s not the republicans, they probably would have sold 1000 tanks…

    • Johanna

      I am glad this wholw thing is just a farce, because I would not like Greeks to get your rubbish left overs from Afghanistan!

    • molon labe

      Shut up you ignorant hillbilly. Open a book once in a while and stop playing video war games and what ever else youre playing you get the hint.

  • Yeahoffline

    THERE IS NO FAULT of Greek citizens, its the Gouvernement! SO STOP HATING GREEKS

    • ow yeahh

      It´s because of Greek citizens too, every little change the government wants to make is hold back because of demonstrations of the Greek citizins

      • Sanni

        Wait until other european governments do the same to their citizens.

        • Sisko

          They already have, years ago. We’re still around. Start paying taxes first, then they won’t have to beg other countries.

          • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

            The parasites that leeched on the Greek state must now feel like flees sitting on a dead dog!

          • Athena

            Beg other countries?? who begged??
            Greek people didnt have a vote in the recent very important decisions our government took..if we had a vote we d choose default instead of giving up out sovereignity to IMF..IMF destroyed Argentina 10 years ago…

        • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

          You sound like still under occupation of the Ottoman empire. You have self-rule remember?

          • Alexandros Drake

            I totally agree with you Prf. dr. J. Sterk.

            Nevermind my fellow Greeks. Working in the public sector has been a dream come true for the last generation. All this due to the socialist dream of our PM’s family which has ruled Greece for half a century. They languidly formed the public’s needs and dreams and ambitions simply to working in the public sector so that they could enforce their votes for decades. The Greek state is like a cancer patient getting chemo. Now we are simply vomiting the bad stuff out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/soubitos Christos Apostolidis

            we have EU dictatorship.. you too.. but you have no way to understand it.

          • Johanna_zapantis

            May I ask what kind of Prof. Dr. you are?
            Are you Austrian? I ask because they are famous to mention their titles. Ephraim Kishon said so

        • Natasja

          my country is The Netherlands, we have the same problem, we people getting less, paying more.. but all our taxes have to go to other country’s who dont know how to run a country! We have to pay 18 miljard euro for a country that lie, cheat. let it go bankrupt. I will pay for them if they gave my greece ground! And im not a greek hater, i dont like there goverment, like i dont like mine and realy dont like the us! Instead of helping our own poeple who know what it is like to be poor, taxes money go to people in other country’s who have enough!

          • natasja

            peace of ground so we can build for teh people of greece, so they can trade on each other.. Profite food, not factory’s but back to nature. Help the citizens to survive on their own end provide them selfs food and other things they realy need.

      • Nzarkole

        that s a very naive approach

      • Nzarkole

        that s a very naive approach

      • Johanna_zapantis

        You know it all, do you?

    • Notebookje

      I strongly disagree with you. It’s a democratic country, the people of Greece (you) vote. You also don’t pay taxes. You should have stand up 10 till 15 years ago and cry for a revolution.

      • Nzarkole

        no .. it s not like that … 5 political families change each other in government.. the mass media is only showing them … the smaller parties with different opinions are not shown even when elections are happening … and the private sector is paying a lot of taxes and they get nothing (as health education protection)

        • Tycka

          I heard that 1 million people in Greece are civil servants (so they work for the government) – please correct me if that is wrong! So that would be almost 1/10 of the whole Greek public. Just as a comparison, in Austria they have a similar number of inhabitants, but only 150.000 civil servants.
          Now you’re saying that the mass media doesn’t show the smaller parties, so in fact they are supporting the government, too.

          To me, in total, that sounds like a whole lot of people supporting the government, while nobody was on the streets, for years, complaining about their wrong-doing. If the Greek people would have wanted to make a change, there would have been a possibility. At least it would have been worth trying. But all we can see now is that the Greeks always blame others, instead of standing up for their country and start making a change. I’d have some suggestions, but want to keep it short now, because some Greek said before that they won’t listen anyway.

          • Nzarkole

            tycka that s correct … 1million people for 11 million people .. it s oureageous and goverment doesn t feel that has something to do for it … it raises taxes cut benefits do what ever it has to be done but not getting out 200 -300 000 now.. that s because most of these public servants are members of the two major political parties .. the expenses to pay them raised from 11billion in 2001 to 23billion in 2009.!!!!.. the other political party (right wing) also opposes to firing them !!!!!! … it s redicullus ..the left wing parties are still in the days of lenin n stalin .. !!!!! … no hope … no leaders … as for the mass media the owners get jobs and money from the public advertisement .they eat n drink together with the politicians …. the major greek contractor owns the biggest tv stations.. it s a leathal embracement for greece … and middle class citizens always try to change things but not by burning but in the courts of justice …

      • Johanna_zapantis

        Excuse me!!!!! When you say: YOU dont pay taxes… who do you mean?
        99% of politicians are liars and the one who lies best wins! Everywhere the same.. unfortunately, but what now? Any practical solution?

    • KamiKater

      As far as I know, Greece is a democracy. Isn’t it the craddle of democracy?
      So maybee there is a fault of Greek citizens. You voted for vour governement. I, as a german citizen, did not have a chance to vote for your governement. But I have to pay for you.

      No, I do not hate greeks.

      • http://www.facebook.com/soubitos Christos Apostolidis

        You do not pay anything for the Greek citizens. You and all of EU citizens are simply bailing out private and not only private banks. In fact, those countries giving money for Greece are simply switching bonds for profit! And last but not least, German interests in Greece are driving this country to bankruptcy in order to buy cheap. Answer this simple question… since we are all member of EU and have the same currency, how can it be that we are not as competitive as Germany? Base salary in Greece is now close to 600 euro … in Germany it is at least double -correct me if I am wrong-… and how come we pay for 2 million illegal immigrants without way to let them go to Germany? Oh, and will Germany send its army to defend Greece / EU Borders in case of a clash with Turkey or anyone else? And why does Germany sell submarines and tanks to Greece at far more expensive prices than ie to Turkey? btw, why do you care so much of Greek sun? is it because you want to rid of nuclear power and steal our sun instead? Greek national power company with 3,2 billion tons of confirmed lignite reserves worth aprox 200 billion $ and complete monopoly over power distribution in and out the country is selling for 2-3 billion.. and guess who wants to buy.. Germany!

        In fact, dear friend, there is a great number of conscious Greeks who beg you not to give any more money to a corrupt government and political system your country likes so much to give money to.. see Siemens illegal payments to political parties in Greece ie. There is a great number of Greeks who want to revert to a national currency and hopefully install a government of Greeks not taking your money unlike those puppets you now control fully. We would love to see how Germany can survive paying what she is legally obligated to .. some say 70 some 600 BILLION euro worth of reparations for totaly destroying our country in WWII and causing half a million Greeks to die from hunger after you took our money and even our bread….

        No, I do not hate Germans…
        I hate stupidity and mind-blindness

        • natasja

          I agree, we dont need to pay more for your goverment. all our tax money goes to greek now. While in our country people need to go to the food bank, because they cant buy food in the market. Ive spoken to greek people who say the same thing as you, do not feed our leaders with more money. Let teh country go bankrupt.. but it is not the people whp go bankrupt, its the country and their leaders, and of course the banks. let them blow. You get a chain reaction with other european country’s, and we the people can start build without the leaders who destroy all of our country’s/ germany is now the richest country, but you forget al teh jewish gold that is stil there. Germany banks already have the DM back, they are waiting so they can step out of the euro. Every human beining in the european country’s can say we did not agree to the euro, our country’s decided without us. No one wanted the euro. Look what it brought us to.. And i cant understand the US intervering with our country’s/ They are the worst country ever. They destroy miljons of lives.. for there own benefit. Well we all know how the us been build. They are outcast of europe… But it seems they forget for years where they are from. They destroy there own people, and blame it on country’s with oil, zo they can get hand of it! let every country solve there own problems. I can see a war coming… Just because of the horney man who needs power..

          • Athena

            i agree with u 1000% in everything u said and im Greek…
            i can also see a war coming..
            what most people dont know is that Germany tottaly destroyed Greece during ww2! they destroyed roads, bridges, executed whole villages, killed babies and old people ,stole our money and food! and they STILL havent paid back the reparations of ww2..they owe us 80 billion euros…

        • m.

          Yes of course. Germany is the root of your problem. Great.

          You know, blaming others for your own misery, not taking any responsibility for your own fate, that’s a muslim view of the world. Arabs say so to excuse everything. But you are not arab.

          Poland for instance was destroyed much more than Greece in WWII _plus_ they had 40 years of communism. They were desperately poor in 1990. But look where they are now. They are rapidly becoming a wealthy european nation. They started from almost nothing 20 years ago.

          What did Greece do in the meantime? You kept your crazy corruption system where no public worker will do anything before he got some bribe. But well, if everyone has some cousin who is working for the government, this system might work somehow. But that’s a 3rd world system. Most of Africa works like that. But you are not african.

          So Greece lost 30 years of development while Spain (getting democracy in the 70s, like you) and even Eastern Europe, getting democracy in the 90s, just passed you, developing their nations while you were sleeping and dreaming to keep your african economy forever.

          Now you wake up and find out that a) you are bankrupt and b) Bulgarian economy will be as good as yours soon, but much cheaper. Even the turks somehow manage to fight their poverty.

          Of course you are right that Greece has Erdogan as an aggressive and imperialist neighbour and we in the north must know more about this threat right on your doorstep. And as Spain & Italy, you have many illegal immigrants who want to enter Europe. You need every help to cope with that (and to send these people back home, please). That’s completely right.

          And second, everyone who insults you is an idiot. You are our european sisters & brothers. Period. Other way around, don’t insult us for trying to help you.

          But your economic problem is homemade. Don’t blame others for yourself sleeping for 30 years. Just wake up and start where Poland started in 1990. They had many hard years, but right now, they start to see that it was woth the effort. Get rid of your arab whining and your african corruption and become European. The Spanish and Poles and Hungarians did before, the Romanians and Bulgarians just started, and you should, too.

          • zaubermike

            great comment. totally agree with you

          • makis44

            Forward to a lover policy!
            1st Target: Changing our Constitution.
            (devoted on an extraordinary demonstration took place on 23/02/2011, in Argostoli, Kefalonia Isl. GR).

            Since several years before, we are looking for a policy to have passion, feeling, love. A policy where must have the challenge of values and ideas to admiring the human been, the miracle of the live creation.
            It is very important to be creating, with our freedom minds, thinks for love. To be admiring is the start of love. Today, is it something so exciting? Policies are so miseries and incompletion lies.
            This is the real matter, so that getting us our attention! This is the most attractive point to be starting to love again.
            An idea of an unemployed journalist, adopted at the begging from a few people and time by the time is getting stronger. Suddenly, hundredths are appearing from around of the world.
            What is under of this?
            It is only a beginning, against depression, against disappointment, which are reproducing by the whole existing political system. Few people where captured this idea, wisdom like ancient Greeks, they did not believes on their eyes. Greeks are getting come back. Greeks are getting out their political differences…with a great ugly. Like to be known, which the first they have to do for fighting, is to pick up their fall apart. To be reorganizing their community, like in the past times. To be reinstall their fall apart community pieces. Like Spartans, were they getting care their beauty, just before the combat. Then the WAR! Either, Love (Eros) was a child of Venus and Mars (war); Beauty and War.
            Get Our Live Back.
            We want our life back. So, because they don’t have in mind to give us back anything, we’ll take it back.
            Because this is not a communist idea, either a conservative too, but absolutely human, against to any politics drove us to this chaos.
            Perhaps, history in the future, writes a new page to the whole humanity, maybe not. This matter is on our hand.
            Since that Day, we are getting up closer day-by-day, where at the end we’ll feeling again like human been. Nice and beauty, like GREEKS. Anonymous Grecians are speaking again to the ‘Western Nation’, our Nation. A Nation, that has the main route, GREECE.
            HERE, on this LAND, it’ll finish the Banker’s JUNTA, of IMF, ECB and the Oligarchy of all these local dirty politicians.
            REBORN OUR DEMOCRACY is getting real now, time-by-time.
            From the ancient Greek kingdoms and from the power of one King, we went to the collective power. Here, been born the Agora and the Ecclesia of Municipality. Here, the policy acquired plural number and became “affair of all”, that is to say our own. Thus, they began three centuries of democratic life, since the time where Philippos comes and becomes all one empire. In Greece, the writing and the reason changed role, ceased it is institutions of royal decrees and they became the way of distribution of ideas, unprecedented exposed in the crisis of crowd. Here, been born the new city. Here, the power becomes public and open for all.
            The current Greeks, instant to remain glad for what they made their ancient parents, in the same land, they can still again export policy, ideas and culture, recomposing the materials that were delivered to them, enriched with new ideas.
            We want back from the bankers the money printing, the markets and the decisions. We can. Enough. We turn away perjurer politicians. The economic oligarchy is weakness with such fraud politicians.
            The speech and the imagination can become again the arms of freedom. Based on an idea of unemployed young person, is setting up a feast! Let be again, first from all human.
            The current political situation requires, the work and our fortune to be under their control like as a new Feudalism. The people’s hard work is becoming tax and fees for “loaners”. Who gave to them, the opportunity to print money that they “loans” to us? We don’t have any debt to any one of them. The only ‘’debt’’ that we have is to give back the future to ourselves and to our children.
            This is ours Big Red Line.
            A handful of unknown persons, propose to us gathering our pieces, turning away the depression, get together again, against Neofeudalism of “representative democracy”. Can we go together in a big feast? We participate and we make what us goes down. We have to take back the Public site, which belongs to us. The feast is love and war against the violence society, the private power, the chrematistic oligarchy and their political servants.
            And this small fire becomes a great fire that unfolds beyond the borders. The activist against the bankers, Alex Jones, takes this idea and he strengths it more: “We want behind this World”. Other, initiatives of people from other countries is prepared to repeat our own new idea, supported on the wisdom of Greek Culture.
            We put back again, the supremacy of Democracy in the place of current governmental inhumanity.
            What happens in Greece now is to return the democracy into real meaning. In most complete political, value and social system, which were presented ever in the world. The false ideological divisions we will finish it at once, here in Greece; and we will say it anywhere.
            Because, the ancient Greek democracy did not had parties. It had only human been.
            What we now have to do is the returning of passion, love of loving the policy. Returning the people in policy. Returning the policy in the city and to people. Like it was in the ancient years. Forever. With knowledge, wisdom, wiliness, imagination, passion and love. We reconstruct the big “western nation”. Own Nation. Feast and War, up to come back freedom for the humanity. For the life and its meanings.

            KEFALONIA isl, GR, Original article in Greek, posted on “NYSTERI” Newspaper, (February 27, 2011, Occupied Period, leaf 5).

          • Wolverine (U.S. American)

            They (Greece) love to bite the hands (Germany, U.S.A) that feed them.

          • Johanna_zapantis

            Do you know how little you know?

          • Tyroneez

            It’s not a gift …it’s an expensive loan … You ignorant fool
            And when the banks call i’n the USA debt you will be begging china for handouts

          • cmon

            I am Greek and could not agree with “m.” more. He said it fair and square.
            BUT the money the EU is lending us is mainly to support the German and French banks who own our debt, by ensuring they collect their payments.
            AND the used tank issue is an effort to save money in a country that cannot do otherwise than maintain an army to fend off Turkey on its OWN. No one in EU is going to offer a helping hand against Turkey. Just be honest to admit that. We are not Belgium, sitting in the middle of Europe, that can live by having a Gendarmerie

          • Tyroneez

            @cmon
            At last somebody … Who knows what they are talking about

          • Manolito13

            My friend our debt problem is OUR problem but the citizens didn’t benefit from that. Politicians and their friendsstole the money and now citizens are obliged to pay money they do not have. We were screwd by our parliament!What do you propose? To revolt?

          • Stanvanhoucke

            kalispera manolito,

            you are absolutely right, the elite steals worldwide and the commercial massmedia imply that is is the common people who are crooks. what i would propose is indeed, revolt!!! you have nothing to lose. but don’t use violence, civil disobedience, start with refusing to pay taxes and motivate your neighbours to do the same.

          • Phoevos

            Stavna:

            But if revolt is what you want then try revolting against the real sinners. How soon can you invade Germany?

          • Stanvanhoucke

            don’t make a farce out of reality. germany is een country, a state. alle states work together now with the economic powers, the rich elites. so the elites you have to fight, and not the people of germany or greece or the usa.

          • Phoevos

            Germany is a POS.

        • http://draketo.de Arne Babenhauserheide

          If by base salary you mean minimum wage: We don’t have that in germany for most jobs. There are some people working for as little as 3-4 € per hour and many new jobs are 400€ jobs: 400€ per month.

          That’s why our companies get so rich: They pay very little to the ones doing the “easy” work.

          If you want to see how money in germany is distributed, just look at the combined debth+private property clock: http://draketo.de/proj/schuldenuhr-vermoegensuhr/

          It shows debth in the first line.
          In the second line private property.
          In the third private property of the upper 10%.
          Note: The lower 30% have no net property at all.

        • Plb

          “You do not pay anything for the Greek citizens.”

          I agree 100%! The EU is paying for roads that never builded, for bridges that never be finished, for studies that never started and for computersystems who never arrived to the schools. NO cent to the citizens!

          ” And last but not least, German interests in Greece are driving this country to bankruptcy in order to buy cheap.”

          In case Germany has such interests, they had Greece led go broke 2 years ago without any payments in order to buy the whole assets for peanuts!

          “Answer this simple question… since we are all member of EU and have the same currency, how can it be that we are not as competitive as Germany? ”

          You should get the answer from the 3 political families, the 10 business clans and the 300 (MP´s) in the club of thiefs who are sharing the whole cake!

          “And why does Germany sell submarines and tanks to Greece at far more expensive prices than ie to Turkey?”

          Because the Turkish Generals and the Turkish Ministery of Defense hase smaler suitcases for that what you Greeks call MISA!

          ” btw, why do you care so much of Greek sun? is it because you want to rid of nuclear power and steal our sun instead?”

          Steal “your” sun? I didn´t know that Greece ownes the sun. What I know is the matter of fact, that the Greek national power company is blocking over 16.000 written requests for PV-producer licenses since 2008!

          “Greek national power company with 3,2 billion tons of confirmed lignite reserves worth aprox 200 billion $ and complete monopoly over power distribution in and out the country is selling for 2-3 billion.. and guess who wants to buy.. Germany!”

          The Greek power company (DEI) it selfes is worth nothing! Yes I said NOTHING (=NADA – ZERO – NIENTE)! The netto assets of DEI (the illigal monopoly and the lignite reserves) are numbered to less than 3 billions (euro billion =3.000.000.000) by international AND Greek experts. Why only 3 billions?

          1.
          The monopoly is illigal: Means it will fall after selling or placing the DEI 100% to the stockmarket.
          2.
          80% of the infrastructure (Powerplants, wires, machinery etc) is prehistoric to EU-Pollution-Standards.
          3.
          To be competitively on the international and domestic market, the new owners must completely renew the infrastructure and fire at least 40% of the emploies!

          All my relatives live in Kozani (West-Makedonia) near to the 2 biggest power plants and the lignite mines. DEI is the biggest employer and the financial motor of the whole region.
          Fireing 40% of the DEI staff, would bring citizens back to the years of the civil war.

          “In fact, dear friend, there is a great number of conscious Greeks who beg you not to give any more money to a corrupt government and political system your country likes so much to give money to..”

          Sorry dear friend Christos Apostolidis, you´r 18+ years old wich means you voted (I believe you went to the ellections) the club of thiefs too. If you find a practical way how the EU can drop the money (fia aircrafts like the berlin air-bridge) directly to the citizens than you will be the next Political leader of the hellenic republic, because we all vote for you!!!!!! ;-)

          “see Siemens illegal payments to political parties in Greece ie.”

          WAKE UP HELLAS! These are the parties and the thiefs that you have elected!
          As long as Greece has not the know how and the industries to build Tanks, Submarienes, Roads, Telecoms, Airplanes and Vehicles nothing will change!
          Are you so naiv to thing it makes any difference if the supporters of the illigal structures or payments are German, French, Italian American or British?

          As long as the first question from thouse basdards (I mean your MPs) is, how much do I personal get from this deal and the seccond one how much does my party profits, nothing will be change!

          ” There is a great number of Greeks who want to revert to a national currency ……. ”

          Be serious please! Grecce imports nearly everthing from all over the world because there is no strong domestic industrie. Evan meat, butter and milk comes from the bad germans because it´s much cheaper to import than to produce.
          How should the citizens pay for this after a revert to the drachme? And how many generations from now should bleed for the indebtedness in euros by paying it back in drachmes?

          “……. and hopefully install a government of Greeks not taking your money unlike those puppets you now control fully.”

          This is YOUR target for the future, because we bad germans can not vote in Hellas. You reached the first step today, because the thiefs went down to a number of 49 till the next ellection!

          ” We would love to see how Germany can survive paying what she is legally obligated to .. some say 70 some 600 BILLION euro worth of reparations for totaly destroying our country in WWII and causing half a million Greeks to die from hunger after you took our money and even our bread….”

          1.
          Do your self a favor and leave this theme to the “real experts” like
          Prof. Dr. Dr. Theo Pangalos and Margaritis Tzimas, who are responsible for “stupidity and mind-blindness” in this affairs. The grandchild of a former Greek Diktator (Theodorus Pangalos I. born 1878 died 1952) better should read a book* before he starts write his lampoons**!!!!!!

          * Germany paid 115 million Deutsche Mark in 1960 to the Hellenic Gouvernment vor the killed Greek citizens (not a single penny for any reparations or damages to the Greek properties!).

          To remeber you the old days a little:
          In 1960 my father earns 1,56 Deutsche Mark per hour as an Engineer with Greek Diploma at BMW in Munich.
          My Mother gets 1,02 DM per hour working for Siemens in munich at the same time.
          In 1959 -before both emigarted to Germany- my Dad was in Service of the Greek Army, in the Rank of a Major, commanding some Tank-Units near Athens. His income was 1000 Drachmes per month. The payment of the ordinary privat -serving his obligat 24 months- was 80 Drachmes per month in 1959!!!!!! My Mom gets 400 Drachmes at IKA as a nurse at this time.

          2.
          Stupid politicans and idiotic Historicals mostly forget, that you can´t compare a plum with a papaya.
          When you say (prayed by the club of the 300 thiefs to you) that assets and estates where stolen and destroyed by the bad Germans since 1940, never payed or brought back, then please my friend Christos Apostolidis read a historical book from 1823. after reading this, pay a little respect to us Gremans especialy to King Otto (ottonas)!

          Do we bad german asking you Greeks to give us back the Palace of the Vouli, or the historical Metro, or the Athens Diktia, all payed from Bavarian gold, by King Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach?

          **
          Better ask Prof. Dr. Dr. Theodoros Pangalos MP in the club of the 300 thiefs:

          Why he mentioned a couple of times in his speeches and lampoons, that the former bad germans (called nazis at this time) took away all the greek gold. Did he knowes the pitty of Hitler and us bad germans, that King George II. (you remenber the dude who send his grandfather the Diktator Theodorus I. to jail) shiped all the gold to Krete in april 1941 (when he pooh his pants in the age of 3 in the arms of his prood grandfather). Later than, on the British Destroyer HMS DIDO, the gold (18,66 tons) went to Alexandria (Egypt). When Rommels Africa Corps arrived in Alexandria the gold was gone to Pretoria on an unknown vessel. From Petoria the Greek gold arrived in London 1944. After the the end of WWII. England returned the gold to the Bank of Greece where it should be until today. Or not?

          “No, I do not hate Germans…
          I hate stupidity and mind-blindness”

          And I don´t hate my Greek brothers and sisters, but I hate all stupid and mind-blinded voters who are responsible for the situation of the club of 300 thiefs. Let´s see what heapens with the club of the 49 (thiefs or no thiefs) untill Feb. 2012 and what the future will bring for you Christos….

          Good luck and all the best for Hellas!

          P. Boz
          Kapitän zur See (OF-5)

  • Zande

    Well, I”m Dutch too and I rather see Greece buying tanks to protect itselve against the Turks with my money, then paying back French and German banks.
    Fuck the banks, buy the tanks!

    • Tyroneez

      Dear mr zande
      You are a courageous and honourable man … Helping a people resist , blatant aggression …
      is a duty of every world citizen …
      And your fellow countryman should rest assured that the troika loans are not bailout gifts or new loans …
      They are only replacing greeces old loans , at 5% interest and not free gifts …
      Although much cheaper then the 25% interest rate demanded by the markets ..
      5% annually of 350 billion is a lot of money …16 billion to be exact …
      And 160 billion over 10 year bonds …
      A very large amount of money , indeed …
      And when you realise that the troika is borrowing this money from the markets at under 2% ….
      that’s a lot of profit for the troika …
      Plus Greece will still owe the original 350 billion …
      And Greece will repay every Penny …
      Just by paying back 20 billion a year initially … It can be cleared in 30 years …
      I still would like to commend you for your open hearted support .
      Despite the world wide misleading media hysteria and vilification of greece surrounding this whole issue

  • Guushuberts

    building an army so they scary the people off that come to collect their debt money…. nice try but someone PLEASE TELL THEM TO DO SOMETHING USEFULL WITH OUR TAXES

    • molon labe

      I think only the germans had that gift you know scaring people and whole nations.So my dear Guushuberts i hear you guys in germany have a very good health system. So your first priority starting tomorrow should be to check your self in a mental clinic. After all you germans pay your taxes unlike the greeks. So you deserve the best treatment available.I wish good luck in your new way of life.

  • Grow up Greece.

    I wrote an essay on the taxation issue of Greece. A shockingly low 30% of the Greek population pay it’s taxes. What’s more, reports tells of 5 people doing the same job, something that no more than 2 is needed for (and 1,5 of these people pay taxes). In most parts of “West” Europe, we retire at the age of 65. While in Greece, its at 50. Now I hope you Greeks understand why your country is hitting rock-bottom and dragging the EU with it. Get a grip, it’s shameful to have such a country in this part of the world, you should know better.

    • Sanni

      europe profits from greece – think all the exports to greece. – talk to greek people, you get a diffenrent picture.

      • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

        And leave the bill to Norther taxpayers? No way!

        • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

          wich bill my friend? are you serious? we do not need you we do not want you..greek politicians wants eu not the people..

          • a European taxpayer

            If you don´t need us and don´t want us ?? Why don´t you just get the f*#K out of the EU and go bankrupt!! Would solve a lot of problems for the rest of us !

          • Nzarkole

            the question can be diversed … if u don t like eu why don t u leave it and let it be a union of corrupted countries ??? (that is a joke)

          • Johanna_zapantis

            Please, don’t make the mistake to put Greek tax payers and Greek politicians or fat asses into the same pot! Thank you!

          • http://draketo.de Arne Babenhauserheide

            We will see how you vote in the next election.

          • Nick The Greek

            European taxpayers should take responsibility for the politicians they elect.

            If you let your politicians screw you over in order to serve the banks, then its your own fault,.

            Blaming Greece for everything is the easy way out. Anything else actually requires a pair of “cojones”.

      • Natasja

        Have you ever been to europe??? Are you nuts? Europe does not profite from greek. You shoudl know what you are talking about before you talk! The worst land there is is the US! they profit form everyone! They destroy country’s for oil of to fill there banks! Greek people are stubber, they dont wanna pay tehre taxes, its corupt, they lie so they get more money to buy things, instead of helping there people! Ive been to greece a week ago! The people are angry at there gouvernement. They keep the money in their own pockets. Every country in europe exports to each other and IMPORT! Without export in greece they wont survive!

        • makis44

          Devoted to our friends which are believes that Greece is the problem in the EU.

          Dear friends why your country is in debt with trillion of dollars. (are you believing that the collapse of your country is far away yet?

          Please take a tour to the site of economist/global debt clock and find out about your country

          http://ca.gdc_economist.economist.com.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html

        • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

          we had our agreecalture prodacts but eu forced us to destroy them..yes we can survive..there is no only eu..there is also china and russia with more money and they want to “get foot on greece” if we called them..and of course we have 1,5 trillion euros oil and natural gas..that is the reason of greece-turkey fight..turkey wats a share from our natural welth..and the word “europe” barbarians from north is a greek word..

        • Wolverine

          You people are lazy with your siestas you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of blaming all your problems on the U.S. why don’t you make the shithole country of yours a better place to live. You Hellanics are the joke of the world buying tanks you’re never gonna use when your country is broke and begging for handouts.

          • Johanna

            Watch your mouth and before you put your finger on anybody else have a good look into a mirror. I am glad the people of the country I live in (Greece) are not as brainwashed as you US citizens!

          • Tyroneez

            Rich James bitch
            Yeh your not only a bitch … But a stupid bitch too …
            The USA owes more money than any country i’n history …
            US$ 14 thousand billion … Thats more than your GDP … But You
            Probably don’t evdn know what GDP means … You screwball …
            Just because most of the banks (markets) are mostly American , & British … And they haven’t tried to call i’n your debt ….YET
            Coming on hear spouting your racist bile …
            When its obvious you don’t even know the first thing about international finance ..

          • http://stanvanhoucke.blogspot.com/ stan van houcke

            no, tyroneez. the usa owes nothing. it has the biggest foreign debt in history. it is bankrupt and only survives because of the loans of the chinese and europeans. except for weapons it does not produce much. it needs war all the time, because it has privatized warfare. the american wars are fought by private companies. the more war the higher the profits. the usa has created a monster which devours the society in the usa and the rest of the world piece by piece. the europeans are sucked into this moloch because of the nato which doubled in seize after the fall of the soviet union and is now not a defensive organization anymore but an offensive and aggressive organization. the greek elites are so corrupt to support this war machine and so are most european countries who finance the american military industrial complex. nationalism plays the role of blinding people.

          • Tyroneez

            Yes Stan van houcke
            That’s exactly what I’m saying …
            The USA also borrows from china … And thd markets etc
            And owes more than US$ 14 thousand billion …
            And yes … Spends more than US$ 500 billion annually on it’s defence budget … Which is actually an offence budget …
            The military i’n the USA have become so big that it’s practically a state within a state …
            And what do they fo with this enormous military machine ???
            Korea .. Vietnam .. Proxy wars all over africa …Gulf war 1 … Afganistsn …Gulf war2 …
            IRAN ??

        • Nzarkole

          the truth is that the trade deficit of greece with the eu industrialized countries has drammatically changed against greece …that means that european products were cheaper than the american or the japanese because there were no import taxes for them… we have to admit also that eu gave a great amount of money to change greek economy but corruption disappeared the money … an example (i m repeating it) athens airport … a german company borrowed the money to build it n run it and the profits go to the german stock holder of the company … that company owes 500 million taxes and doesn t pay …another examle siemens admited that they handed a great ammount of money to get many projects in greece … now siemens has sold everything in greece so nobody can touch anything in paying back … the president of the company had in his agenda the names n phone numbers of many politicians !!!! corruption …the judje who was searching the scandal was accused … who went to jail? … none

          • Johanna_zapantis

            Evge Chrysostome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Panos

      That is a terrible lie. Shame on you.

    • Nzarkole

      what you are writing is not true … i ll get pension at my 65 … after 46 years of work .. i have the right to have pention after 35 years of work but i can get it after i get 65 …. . but to be honest some clever guys close to the political parties manage to do what ever they want … we r not drugging nobody … the greek state property is bigger than the country owes … we must sell it and u guys get payed … but the greek leaders think not logically but like idiots … see what happened with the property of the olympic games … nothing … also with great foreign companies that was caught cheating( like siemens) … nothing … nothing … nothing

      • http://draketo.de Arne Babenhauserheide

        If they sell the state property, what does that gain you? Private companies then own the property and the debth will come back. What would you sell next?

    • Vickymatthaiou

      I would suggest you get your facts right. Just because you have done an essay doesn’t mean you know. First of all, the retirement age in Greece is 60, however if you work on heavy duty jobs and you have completed minimum of 30 years then you can retire. I’m not saying this should be the case howeve if you start as an international truck driver at the age of 20 then by 50 you have completed your 30 years. There are loopholes and I do agree but general statements like that should not be allowed. Maybe the rest of Western Europe retires at 65 but have you ever worked in the Med in the summer at high temps? Trust me, it’s not fun at all!!!!! And as far as the job is done by 5 instead of 2, this is in the Public Sector and I can assure you this happens in Holland too where I leave. I work for the Public Sector and in my department, we have 5 people for a job that can be done by 3! Yes, the taxation is a problem in all the Med countries and the retirement age too and EU knew of the all the financial problems Greece had since 2007 but refused to deal with it.

    • Johanna_zapantis

      Where did you get this figures from? Are you completely out of your mind? I am not Greek, but I live in this country for the last 26yrs. Hope YOU will grow up, before its too late!!!!!!!!

    • Melissa

      Oh what a bright dude u are? lool
      really a country of 11 million can destroy European economy? so its Greeks’ fault that Italy ‘s economy is messed up and destroyed? its Greeks’ fault that France’s Spain’s Portugal and Ireland’s economies are also messed up…
      And last time i checked the retirement age in Greece was65 ..the Only difference is that in western -northern europe people get paid 3 times as much !!!!…while the salaries in Greece are way lower..of course we ll escape paying taxes!!! if the tax is up to 40% …to pay in order to save ur pathetic banks..give up our sovereignity to save YOUR ECONOMIES Aand BUY UR WEAPONS!?? at the same time Germany doesnt PAY UP the money the OWE TO US since ww2…
      and dont tell me that was 70 years ago..we dont give a damn…its OUR STOLEN MONEY…trials about it are in progress!!

  • Johannes

    These tanks are to defend the govt against the people who do not agree with them… The citizens!

  • Guest

    Of course there is.
    1. Greeks voted for their government.
    2. Greeks don’t pay taxes.
    3. Greeks dare to DEMONSTRATE when their own country goes to financial hell.

    Seriously, YOUR DEBT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. Whoever is responsible, nobody cares about. What people care about is that YOU get your own things together. So start taking responsibility for your own country, go to work everyday, and do whatever is required from you, or else it’s going to get even worse. Protesting… It’s like you don’t have brains. IT CANNOT SOLVE ANYTHING.

    • Mpla

      You seem to know many things about Greece. Do you know what is the average salary in Greece? Do you know how much that goes for taxes?

      700 Euros

      60%

    • Johanna

      The only chance to get rid of this useless government! Any other suggestions?

  • Peter

    Beware of the Greeks! They were here before all of us and they are going to be here for a long long time. So open your tinny tinny brains and realize what is happening here! You ought money to Greeks not the opposite. For years companies in Germany, USA, France, are bribing Greek politicians to sell Weapons (most of the times useless) in Greece. Since Greece did not had money, it was necessary to make loans in order to pay these companies. Greek people faced poverty and humiliation but either way these gigantic loans (= your money) is not possible to paid back.
    Result:
    1. Certain German, USA, etc companies became extremely rich with your money
    2. Greeks have an enormous debt (not bigger though with respect to Italy, or USA etc…) without having seen any benefits from these money. Instead they have to live with 700 Euros/month or less while the products in Greece (you know your stuff…) are more expensive from what it is at your countries!
    3. This debt cannot be paid back for certain! So guess who is comming next… You all idiots here that you blame Greeks! Wake up! Some few fellow-citizens of yours took a-lot of your money through loans to Greece…

    • Ramses

      I could need a Greek housemaid for cleaning and cooking and a butler. Isn’t that a good way how you can pay back your loans? Everybody should have the right to own a Greek!

      • Peter

        Come one Ramses, if you need someone to take care your unsatisfied wife, there are a lot of nice Greek people to help you out. Don’t hide your real needs behind “cleaning cooking butler etc.”

        • Anonymous

          HAHHAHA :P

      • Hesanainen

        Ramses, why would you want to own a lazy piece of ….? More trouble than anything else…. If you’re going to own a car you don’t go for the Trabant or Lada either. Please let the Greek people be, we only should find a way to stop our politicians from footing the bill….

        • Leonidas

          Wow, “own a lazy piece of ….?”,
          money issues makes you a very ugly person. Even if every word written here is true about the Greeks, is a comment like that justified, over money??? I really hope that your attitude is not a reflection of the Finish peoples attitude for the Greek people. This hate can’t be just about some loan, you must have issues with Greek people.

          • Hesanainen

            A loan is a loan when you are able to pay it back with interest. Having a financial background I know you will not be able to. It would be a miracle if Greece would be able to pay the interest alone. As long as you are unable to unfortunately it’s charity. It’s not the money itself but the fact that others actually have to work for it and pay a huge amount of tax over the money earned. Putting it simply, when paying 50% tax I work half of the time for society and half of the time I get to keep my earnings myself. Do I feel compelled to work a certain amount of time a month financing Greece’s debt. No I don’t and I don’t know anyone who does. That the majority of the Europeans don’t want to pay for Greece seems to be a bitter disappointment for the Greek people. However that’s just reality, deal with it! So prove everybody wrong and pay your debt, have some pride!

          • Leonidas

            You are right, I assure you that most Greeks are not happy about the situation that we find ourselves in (by our own actions). But you will find no one that says we must not pay back. Yes you will see a couple thousand naive idiots striking and rioting in the streets (many of those are already unemployed people anyway) , however the silent majority understands the need for very painful measures and the total transformation of the economy for a better future. In fact you will be interested to hear that in private we all say that Greece needed this disaster to break the status Q. Don’t judge us too early, there has been some progress on the debt, and remember the world is in an economic slump, which makes it harder to progress.

          • Moondog68

            Finally somebody who gets it.

          • Moondog68

            Finally somebody who gets it.

          • Hesanainen

            BTW; I have no issues with Greece or Greek people, not for good not for bad. I do have an issue with Greek state finances in which we are required to assist now.

          • cmon

            For someone who calls Greeks [quote] “…a lazy piece of ” and changes his tune in no time you realize you inadvertently resemble a right wing populist politician.
            Just like those who elevated the issue of accepting surplus US material worth a few million dollars to transfer overseas, to a military expenditure of billions of Euros.

      • Johanna_zapantis

        Typical statement from your kind, but Greeks have never been easy slaves.. look at Spartacus!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Amazed

          Spartacus was a Thracian my friend. Not Greek. You need to read more history books.

  • give greece to turkey

    400 tanks for a total of
    1720000000 euro’s
    that’s a fair deal to other EU nations who spend billions of euro’s to save greece.
    but what would you do you get FREE MONEY becouse you revused to pay tax.
    I would buy the THIRD best tank in the world.
    just give greece to turkey.

    • Nzarkole

      4oo tanks for 1.72b … where did that came from ????

      • soso

        400 Tanks for 10 Mio per Tank ! this are 4 Millarden ( English Billionen ) ! Ich kann garnicht zuviel essen, wie ich kotzen könnte !!!! Fuck politicans …

        • Nzarkole

          400 tanks as they are were they are … i think that s the deal … where did u find that they are going to be granted for 10million each???

        • Johanna

          Das stimmt doch alles gar nicht! Kein Grund zur Aufregung!

    • molon labe

      How about we give your ass to a greek you will never have hemmoroids problems again i promise you.

  • BrianVanNR-AR

    No one seems to see that people have been trying to unite Europe for olmost 2500 YEARS and every attempt has FAILED and resulted in famine, war and other conflicts. LEARN FROM HISTORY PEOPLE!

    Start disbanding the entire European Union. Let every nation drown in their own shit without dragging the entire union with them. I don’t want to bail out a member who has been breaking the rules before they even got in or trying to do something which has no chance of becomming a succes.

  • Notebookje

    This is a joke right? I’ve to pay the rest of my life taxes because my gouverment decided to “safe” Greece. The people of Greece allow their gouverment to buy unneeded tanks????? I hope the people of Greece are still happy. Tell can you still look at yourselfes in the mirror in the morning? Proud to be Greek?

    • molon labe

      We dont look at our selfes in the mirror in the morning you idiot. We look out the window to see a nice piece of greek beatiful ass. You can look yourself in the mirror and admire your big muscles all you want.And then go to the gym and envy all the other assholes there on steroids that have big muscles and small testicles also known as balls.We greeks prefer to have big balls and small muscles you dig gringo.

  • Anonymous

    there ain’t enough flat ground in Greece to line all these tanks up at the border.
    If (big if) Turkey tries anything it will be naval, and around the gas/oil fields off Cyprus.
    Greece seems to be very adept at losing wars, unfortunately, so I think this investment is throwing good money after bad.

  • Robert Steinhäuser

    dear greeks… BURN I A FIRE YOU SILLY MORONS!

    • Appreciated

      Thank you. Crawl back to your cave now you troll.

    • molon labe

      Like the one you burnt at the concentration camps i imagine you f*****ng nazi

  • http://twitter.com/MarinosNomikos Marinos Nomikos

    Some comments here are pathetic in their ignorance, fed by propaganda, cheap media tricks and of course bad education. You make us, Hellenes, laugh out loud. Once we go bankrupt, you will soon follow. But at least we will have our ingeniuity and spirit in the face of adversity to keep us going. Who or what is going to save you ?

    So, pay up (what you owe anyway) and shut up.

  • Bert

    Greece is a beautifull country, and i’m sure the greek people are wonderfull people to. But they are bankrupt and that is certainly not my fault. So why should i (i’m dutch) pay for the mistakes made by the Greek democraticly chosen government?

    By the way, the Turks should stop occupying Cyprus or stop complaining that other countries do the same……(i.e. Israel)

    • Peter

      My friend, I just want to remind you that one of the greatest problems of Greece is politicians corruption. I want to inform you about some great scandals where Greek Taxpayers money was stolen:

      Siemens (Trains, C4I systems, Patriot missile components etc. etc.)
      Ferrostaal (Submarines H&W Type 214, Type 209)
      LEOPARD 2HEL contract
      PZH-2000
      Peace Icarus Phantoms modernization
      etc.
      etc.

      All these scandals are about German companies which were bribing Politicians, Media, Judges, to stole money from Greek people. All these years German people were benefited from that situation. On the other hand the money you gave us are LOANS not for free but with an extremely high illegal interest. So stop complaining

    • molon labe

      Bert i agree with you a 100%but the dutch tax payers like all tax payers are bailing out the too big to fail banks.We did the same here in usa in 2008 and now its the europeans turn.We tend to over analyze things and miss out on the fact that all banks and monetary institutions have our politicians in their back pockets.So it is critical that we focus and turn our anger at them working people of all nations ae in the same boat trust me.best regards

  • Db

    Have you ever heard of the Turkish Operation Sledgehammer?

    Take a look on this Turkish source:
    http://www.todayszaman.com/columnists-199217-bloodiest-coup-plan-sledgehammer.html

    And something from Wikileaks:
    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2010/11/30/wikileaks-uncovers-scenario-for-war-between-greece-and-turkey/

    And a relevant question tabled on the european parliament: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do;jsessionid=AB891AC72CF07AE5A6260010391AE0AC.node2?secondRef=0&language=ET&type=WQ&reference=E-2011-001315

    And some ignorant people are still saying that Greece is safe!!!

    Wake up!!!

  • Panos

    These are our friends the civilized Turks

    http://en.firatnews.com/index.php?rupel=article&nuceID=3236

  • Turco

    Hello, I am writing from Turkey. .Are you guys seriously this dumb or something else? You do noy need those tanks, you need to pull up your society and put things in order. Many of our Greek friends are jobless with children. People are very depressed over there. Forget the tanks.

  • Rickcarufel

    The Greeks will need those tanks to force the population into slavery to the banksters.

    • Peter

      You are so right! But be aware after Greece is following Italy, Portugal, Spain, etc. etc. World is governed by a few banks.

  • Islayscrabblenat

    Who is the desperate one here?… isnt “selling” something (ie mortgages) to people with no chance of paying it back the exact reason the US banking system is going down the plug hole?
    WAKE UP !!

  • M. van laere

    Has anyone fact-checked this news? There is talk online about this being a scheduled replacement operation for outdated equipment. I’ve even found some rumours about the tanks being “free of charge” courtesy of the US gouvernment. And there is just one single source for all this talk, wich is an as yet unprinted article in a magazine.

    I bet this whole tank story is based on the same thorough research as all the wonderfully formulated opinions below it. Fact-free journalism plus fact-free citizenship equals fact-free politics.

    But hey, it might even be true.. Who knows!

  • Hans

    With that maniac Erdogan as a neighbour, I also would buy as many weapons as possible.

    • a European taxpayer

      ….but at least this maniac erdogan spends his “own” money!

      • Nzarkole

        no he doesn t … look the numbers the deficit of the money gettin in n out of turkey(trade turism etc) is growing bigger n bigger … (like greece) ..the gap is filled with loans from abroad.. sooner or later the country will collapse (accordingto the numbers) like we do

  • FD

    And with what will they pay? Slaves?

    • molon labe

      No with souvlakis

  • Alexandros Drake

    R. Van Vuuren, what the hell man? “the Turks are as aggressive as their opponents”. Nice! Lets accept that we Greeks disagree with that statement simply because we, lets say, are biased from our ancestral hate towards them, so our rhetorical seems impaired to you. Have you even watched the news in that far, remote and secluded piece of residence you live in? Turkey clashes with Israel, with Georgia, with Armenia, even with Bulgaria. Are all these people aggressive towards Turkey?
    And anyway who the hell do you think that has forces us to buy prehistorical weapons from USA during the past 30 years?
    Every time a PM simply considers buying weapons from another country lets say Russia curiously Turkey breaches our aerial boarders and causes dogfights where they are easily served of course. Yeah not only Americans can be proud of themselves you know. Stick it up to human nature if you don’t like it.
    You’ve witnessed Greek defense against aggressors before? When was that? We haven’t been involved in a war for half a century and the only kick-ass forces we have are our fighter pilots who during the last 25 years are always ranked in the top 3.
    Do you know that almost everyday Turkish planes invade our airspace fly over our islands until they are driven back after dogfights in an analogy of 5 to 2 against us? When we move politically they call it their right to fly over the Aegean since they are neighbors with us and deny us the right of declaring the 12mile airspace.

    Anyway I don’t really mean to simply insult you. If you think that YOUR tax money goes to Greece well think again. Your tax money is being robbed from you with the excuse that it is given to Greece, when it is not. Your money goes elsewhere. What we get is a package of new-printed money. You and we are all sucker-punched here. If you don’t believe me consider this.
    Two years ago when this whole thing started, it all was Greece’s fault. The Greek people where lazy, where stupid, where slow, spent too much, never paid taxes, got early pensions etc. You heard it time and time again from your local media as if this crisis would change your life. Everybody claimed that Greece has a giant debt larger than that of anybody else in the EU.
    That all would be fine, if more and more EU countries who had the complete opposite institutions and values to Greece, the weren’t lazy, they weren’t slow, the always paid their taxes etc followed the road to bankruptcy. So now you understand that we were the tip of the iceberg and all this is just a cover up story for Europe’s and furthermore Germany’s inability to develop without sucking the blood of smaller countries. For the last 20 years we import milk, meat, wheat all the basic stuff from Germany. Considering that Greece is mainly an agricultural country that touches the boarders of paranoia. Farms where shut down, herds where killed, no agricultural structure in Greece, no agricultural class, nothing just keep importing from Germany, Netherelands and France.

    Of course I don’t keep a blind eye towards the flaws of the Greeks. Which are many. I don’t singlehadly blame just our politicians or simply toss the ball to the rest of the Europe. We do have a lot of flaws, things that your media accuses us of are accurate. But some are exaggerating. We work more hours a week than any other European, we are paid less than any other European, and our pensions were always lesser to yours. If you don’t believe me you can always look it up in the internet.
    Besides accepting what a newspapers tells you without questioning the information flow makes you dumber not smarter. And your post proves my statement.

  • Goncalo Jl76

    come on you cunts, respect greece and the greek peolpe, they gave us a democracy, filosofy, architecture…..etc ….etc…. and this hate is your way to say thanks…..
    Like the roman Horatio said “…and greece won, won the winners”….. Ihope that history repeatrs itself.

    • stike vomit

      Greece: How did it go from the cradle of democracy and western civilisation to a bankrupt third-world country in less than 3000 years? Discuss.

      • Nzarkole

        even when athens was the cradle of democracy there was a bankrupt … if u search it u ll see it happened … how do u think the monuments were made ??? and the big athenian fleet ????

      • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

        your ancestors job is..in 1204 you destroyed greekorthodox empire of constantinople and “give it” to turks..we had 300 west occupation and 400 turkish occoupation..you own to us..

  • Anonymous

    Is this really true? Greeks buying tanks from my taxmoney???

    Other question…..Greece has lied to the EU for decades about their debts and economic figures.
    In my country we call that fraud.

    Has Greece arested those people who lied to the EU? I guess they didnt…..

    • Nzarkole

      they didn t for sure… the system in greece is well made by these guys for these guys… and even if u go on trial for a simple case u need 6 years to get the final result

    • Peter

      I want to inform you that the governments you voted for, have bribed greek TV-networks and Newspapers to support the people that made these frauds!

      Actually all these frauds were made to benefit a few banks of your’s like Goldman Sacks, which earned from this whole fraud billions of dollars of Greek citizens.

      Also if your Government and you personally didn’t support a wold terrorist like Turkey by giving to her F-16s F-35s, Predators, Frigates, and many more than Greece would not have to buy arms too. Greek people are peaceful and POOR! They have to pay the financial and political games of US, Germany and others.

      And in the end if you all “smart” people thing that Greece is a Heaven where no one works, no one pays taxes and all the time we are drinking ouzo and eating mousakas as your journalists and politicians say, then why won’t you COME TO LIVE here? To live your dream in Greece;

      • Core

        Peter Peter…

        You now trying to tell us that we forced you to lie and cheat? Come one…ever heard of responsability of your own acts?

        By the way….there is allways a CHOICE to NOT buy arms, to NOT LIE.

        Well I did visit Greece a couple of times. Love the country, love the nice people.
        What I didnt love, was the corruption on every level (police, civil servants for simple requests, etc etc….all want little payments to smooth thinks over), and an attitude of clientism..

        There is no country in Europe with some many civil servants as for one example.

    • Johanna

      What is the name of your country?
      Please feel free… come and arrest them!!!!!!!! In your country, if possible, thank you!

  • J Nooten89

    omg stupid greeks got no money and still buy/upgrade tanks u gotta be kidding me

    • Johanna

      Did you check if your information is true, before you call the greeks stupid?

    • molon labe

      With a name like nooten i would be very careful calling somebody else stupid

  • Andrew Bort

    Turkey is currently occupying and suppressing a whole nation of 20 million people, the Kurds.

    We live in the 21st century, but yet again there is big nation under occupation by the Turks.

    This is definitely the definition of a rogue state and this fascist Turkish regime is a real threat to everyone.

    Kurds are currently waging a war of independence without any real support from anyone.

    Yet again EU decides to develop partnership with Turkey. So crazy.

    • Amazed

      First of all, the Kurds are not a nation and they are not being suppressed. They are immigrants and they live freely in Turkey. Second, The PKK (which is an illegal Kurdish Terrorist Organization) listed as a Terrorist organization together with Al Queda all over the world is bombing schools and killing women and children just because it suddenly wants a piece of Turkey. If you’re supporting this insanity then I want your house and you should just give it to me, otherwise you’re suppressing me. You’re either very uneducated or you support terrorism.

      • http://stanvanhoucke.blogspot.com/ stan van houcke

        this is nonsense, the kurds were a nation long before the turks arrived in western asia. already the ancient greeks wrote about them. they are not free to express their own nationality as anyone who is interested knows. the turkish army has terrorized kurdish citizens for a long time as i have witnessed myself as a dutch journalist. this does not mean that the greeks need to buy tanks from the americans. it only feeds the powerful military-industrial complex, eisenhower warned for half a century ago.

        • Amazed

          There are Kurdish television channels, literature, taverns, and schools in Turkey. If that’s something a supressed people can do, then fine. But if you’re saying PKK is right and that they should have half of Turkey ( Which is what the PKK, not the Kurdish people, wants) then the majority of immigrants in Netherlands should have a quarter of the country, Turks should have half of Finland and Germany, Germans should have half of France and Poland, and Native Americans should have all of America. Either you’re delibirately taking sides, or you get your intelligence from a PKK lobbyist. I don’t know which one it is, but if someone was bombing schools, clubs, burning villages and slaughtering a whole bunch of innocent people in your country Netherlands, just because they want a piece of your country, I wonder if you would be this symphatetic.

          • Tyroneez

            @amazed above
            The 3 million Turkish citizens in germany and holland are 1/3 kurdish by ethnicity …
            And are recent Migrants and as such have the rights of any migrants … And are free to open turkish and Kurdish language schools and radio stations were ever they want ..
            As they are not a majority in any area , the question of self determination cannot arise …
            Despite what an extremist Turkish nationalist like you may say …
            The fact remains that the 20 million ethnic Kurds are an indigenous , majority all over the 19 provinces of eastern Anatolia …
            They are not immigrants , and have existed in this region since time immemorial …
            Thousands of years before the turks arrived in the region …
            The Turkish state has until recently refused to allow Kurdish radio and language schools … And even now they are severely restricted … Turkey even opposes Kurdish tv stations in Europe …at the very least they should have autonomy in a federal state renamed as Anatolia …and not turkey ..
            If it’s required of little Cyprus , even though there was never a Turkish majority area …
            Then it’s certainly required for the Kurds …
            It’s inevitable ….
            I only hope you are young and live long enough to see it …
            As for terrorism … I suppose the ethnic cleansing of 4000 Kurdish mountain villages , in the 1980s , by the peaceloving Turkish army …
            Was achieved with bunches of flowers and boxes of chocolates …
            And not at the points of rifles …
            How you expect us to believe that thousands of indigenous kurdish youths would run away to the mountains , and take up at arms , for no reason at all … Is typical of your ridiculous denial mindset …
            And further most of the the 60,000 kurdish civilian deaths in eastern Anatolia … Occurred at the hands of the Turkish military …not to mention the 70,000 judicial executions of Kurdish activist youth , carried out by the corrupt Turkish military courts in the 1990s
            Then you have the cheek to criticise the minority Assad regime for doing the same thing in Syria …
            Either you are a hypocrite of the worst kind …
            Or you are a naive believer in everything the Turkish government and propaganda media tell you ..
            Or you have an IQ of under 50 …
            Ether-way your indifference makes you and every Turkish citizen , just as criminally culpable as they perpetrators ..

    • Tyroneez

      @Andrew bort above
      Well said my friend …occupying Kurdistan , western Armenia , alexandretta , Smyrna … Northern Cyprus …
      What next … Northern Iraq , eastern Syria , gaza … The rest of Cyprus … Greek islands … Greek EEZ … Israel ??
      And then they say Iran is a rogue nation …
      But the Greek will fight … Just as they always have done …
      Just like we had to fight the Nazis … Because the german people were to stupid to do it for themselves …
      Oh I forgot they thought thd Nazis were a charity organisation and they didn’t know anything about the death camps and the massacres in Russia …
      the german commentators on here need to take a close look at themselves .. Before opening their mouths

  • zaubermike

    This is embarrassing. Greece out of the EURO and no further Bail outs for them!!!!

    • Nzarkole

      i strongly agree with u … out of euro out of sengen(1000000 immigrants will flud europe the coming week then and there will be much more for sure) … uncle sam is waiting … tanks are a first small gift

  • dm

    Let’s look at this analytically.
    One may presume that even a severe mentally disabled person will understand that buying tanks when being on the brink of bankruptcy, the wallet is far more then empty, isn’t exactly the right timing.
    Now how can it be that people with an iq of at least higher then 30 dó make such a decision, supported by poeple on the other side of the atlantic also with a 30+ iq, knowing what is at stake. Does that make any sense at all?
    No it doesn’t. Obviously something else is going on.

    This deal truly brings the globe on the edge of an economic collapse I feel the world has never experienced before, practically all western countries will be sucked into this, there is simply no money left to bail banks or countries out, and there has never been any in the first place apart from printing huge amounts not being supported by gold, where should all the gold magically have come from?

    Now, this combined with
    - the true history of what the Federal Reserve actually is, for those who are interested, search youtube for “creature of jeckyll island” and how President Woodrow Wilson in the early nineteen hundreds handed over US government power to the financial establishment,
    - and a recent statement of a money trader in the bbc news, confessing how he had dreamed about an economic collapse because it’s the best way to make money from, also testifying that “Governments don’t rule the world, Goldman Sachs rules the world and Goldman Sachs doesn’t care about recovery, they just care about making money”

    to me personally makes it clear that now Greece is obviously being pressured into buying tanks, there can be no other sensible explanation for it, an economic collapse simply is being orchestrated before our very eyes.

    Just a theory but I will not be surprised if I’m not far off.

    • Johanna

      I am happy to inform you that al this tank deal was a farce, you can cool down now

  • TH

    First of all let me tell all of you Europeans that Greece is still in cold war mode. Why, because the number ONE enemy of Greece was never the Warsaw Pact but an ally, Turkey.

    The second think you should know is that the 400 M1A1 are given for free. The only cost is the cost of transporting them to Greece, and of possible refurbishment they might need. Greece will retire 400-900 M48 and Leo-1 after Greece receives the 400 M1A1.

    Some of you might wonder why Greece didn’t go for European used tanks. The answer is very simple, Europeans wanted lots of money for their used tanks. Austria for instance, wanted 2 million € for every used Leo-2A4!!!!!

    • Nzarkole

      and guess what … they will give for less than 2million /tank to europe s closest friend ….turkey…. which doesn t recognize a full europe member (cyprus) and cypriot s ships are not allowed to go to turkish harbors (unlike the other european ships !!!!!!) and doesn t recognize united nation s decision s …. doesn t approve the authority of the international court of hage … opposing to the coming presidency of cyprus in the eu … made a genocide …. what a friend this country is

    • Johanna_zapantis

      Question: Are the tanks transported to Greece from…. Afghanistan maybe?

  • Alexpapas

    You pathetic arrogant f*** dic@heads…

    When Germany was pressing Greece to buy 60 Eurofigter of 100,000,000 mill euros each, everything was ok???????

    IT’s 400 tanks for 20,000,000mill total.!! It’s a grant you PIGS!!!

    and shut the F*** up and stop giving us money you motherless dogs and hypocrites…

    • molon labe

      No alex let those assholes gives money for everything that is known to men from democracy to philosophy to medicine and astrology was given to them by the greeks .Even the name its self Europe is greek if it was not for the greeks they would all be speaking persian now. They owe big time. Pay up assholes.

  • Tzatziki_giros

    Hello,
    I would like to add my comment as a 24 year old Greek. My country suffers by a corrupted political system, not only by the economical crisis. It is sure that Greeks should not vote to this government. It is sure that the state should bring to court everyone who didn’t pay his/her taxes , like in every European country, but i want to ask some questions, if your state didnt ask you to pay your taxes would you do it? If your governments wanted you corrupted would you be fair to your state, jobs, society in general? If you had the best quality of things to export and big international countries didn’t let you do it, would you live in rich countries?
    I think if you ask your self, the answer is in almost cases : i don’t think so.
    I as a person, believe strongly in laws, in order, in fair negotiations, because i grew up watching that everything is not normal, and i dislike the situation.
    I finished a university school and i cant do my job… is this fair to me? I certainly CANT DO ANY JOB right now… you see we have lots of unemployment here. To my generation who is suffering by other generation’s choices, by a crisis in beliefs , humanism, love, happiness and at last the economical crisis, I have to tell, every man and woman should think differently, no matter where they live.
    What young people want is a better world. Tanks cannot bring back the Greeks who committed suicides, because they couldn’t pay their debts to the banks. That tanks can pollute the environment, kill and destroy.

  • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS
    • VLAXOPODAS VLAXOPODAROS

      coat to arms..sabbaton..

  • karam***

    … so many norrow-minded opinions, that sadly come from europeans.
    My few comments are:
    To Germans (and supporters): pay back the money from the WWII and SHUT UP!!!
    To people who “know” Greece: Look! coming in Greece on summer holidays, being drunk all day long and getting laid in the street like monkeys (because obviously you live like ling-dead wage slaves all year long) makes you more pathetic fools than objective judgers of the Greek reality. What? Not all of you do that? Sure! But not all of us avoided tax paying!!! And what happened to the tax money we paid? We paid German broken weapons and interests to the loans Europe gives so they can anslave whoever they can. You know why? Because our governors are pus***s guided by your über alles oriented politicians and profit maniac bankers! And you know why are governors are such? Because there is no DEMOCRACY! You do not have democracy as well! But you don’t care! Because you do not have a clue of what democracy is! All you care about is your kings and queens and you celebrate everytime one of them gets married, sneezes or farts…!

    END YOU STUPIDITY NOW!!!
    YOUR TURN WILL COME!!!

    • Tycka

      Quite polemic, immature and an excuse for everything. Sad to see. Well, not really. I don’t really care if you never get over it, after reading this post.
      Oh, and by the way – Germany has paid their last debts from WWII in 1988, and the last from WWI in 2010. Maybe you would stop blaming others and start to read up on things and watch your language, just a little bit, would ya

      • Nzarkole

        germany didn pay the money borrowed from the bank of greece during occupation … that s for sure … and i m with u about the language of some people here … after all we r here to inform each other not to offend

        • Tycka

          Yes, I agree :)

          Well… I guess there is no way to pay back everything that happened in a war… Not saying that this is OK, but obviously it was agreed by some parties of the war that this and that amount should be payed by the country which lost (whatever) war. Otherwise the arguments will never stop… And for Germany and WWII this “official” amount was paid back in 1988.

          • Nzarkole

            yes but u are talking about the pay back for destroying the country not the money of the bank … anyway i think that war is way back from us and is not the case …. i have to say that even if the debt of greece by a miracullus way becomes zero if greece doesn t fix the deficit of the annual budjet and the exports there will not be any hope … but a small hope rised up yesterday .. the sallaries of the public servants were cut very hard ( a friend working at the ministry of economy -doing nothing- will get 1200 euro from 2200 ) … the sun will rise again when he ll get kicked out from there

          • Johanna

            In a war, in crises… whats the difference… debt is debt!

      • Johanna_zapantis

        May I see the receipt for pay-off please?

  • K-brunswig

    I am very pleased to know that my tax money is spent usefully. Question left over: what about some fresh fighter planes, ammunition, rockets and other peace keeping equipment? Long live the war against error! European solidarity is unlimited
    Klaus from Germany

    • Nzarkole

      your tax money is not spent usefully … but german companies klauss are having a great party in the 3rd world country called greece …. siemens man kraussmafei hdw … do u know that hochtief runs the airport of athens owes 500 millions in taxes ???

      • Frage ….

        a great Party ? Please told me one greece company, which can do this high quality work ? The only what the greece econemy have is Oliven … the biggest company in greece is a company for soft drinks. dont talk stupid stuff … first think and then write …

        • Nzarkole

          frage do u know the budget of oliven industry in greece ??? the company u are refering is coca cola !!!!! and u are not say anything about the party !!! and finally please watch your language … as i said before we r here to inform each other and not to offend

        • Nzarkole

          u as for the quality work you are right ..(that doesn t go for the new submarine and leo2a6 made in germany which have many many problems) …but its products are not the only products that are so good … and sometimes these companies to get the job are cheating (greek politicians are always in this scum)… the siemens scandal isn t enough ??( the president of siemens hellas is hiding in germany and the same company has sold everything in greece in order to have nothing to be taken as a fine to what it did!!!!)

  • Thomasfreitag

    People don’t have food to eat and you guy´s are buying tanks???

    • Nzarkole

      greece doesn t buy … it s a gift … why is it too hard to understand it ???? they r going to replace much more n much older n uselles tanks that consumes much more fuel … it s a race of armaments without an end and of course the country which has the smaller army cannot stop this tragic race first … also some of our allies in the eu are selling armaments to everyone without thinking the common eu interest … it s like one state of the us sells aeroplanes to the chinese (to keep the jobs of the people living at this state) and the general administration does nothing about it … that s what greek pm should do … stand to the eu foroum and say that greece strongly disagrees with that foreign policy … it s not common it s not european … it s just for the industrialized countries

      • Frage ….

        ” Its a gift ” Are you drunk ?? One tank cost 10 Mio Dollar and the Germans pay this, with over 50 % from our tax money. I understand the conflict between Turkey and Greece. But Greece is a nato member, they dont need a army with over 170000 people !!! As a german, i say, NO MONEY FOR GREECE !

        • Nzarkole

          frage these tanks are going to be granted for free ..u didn t read the article did u ???. 10 million is the leo2a6 tank germany sold to greece …germany doesn t pay for those tanks…. finally i agree with you .. no money for greece

        • Nzarkole

          sorry … to be more accurate there will be the cost of transport … it s not 10million each but 20 to 30million for all the tanks !!!!

      • Anonymous

        A gift? A seriously doubt it. The US only gifts things to one nation and let’s just say that “nation” is not Greece. Just like they’ve done with every other underdeveloped country, they shoved those down the throat of the Greek government.

        • Nzarkole

          us gifts weapons when it seems that the ballance is going to break … the same thing happened the previous decade when greece found a source of frigates (kortnaer type from netherlands) and us granted oliver perry frigates to turkey to equalize the small greek advantage … same thing happened last year with 220 howitzers m109 which were granted to greece to equalize the turkish advantage (new korean howitzers firtina type) ….. it s a policy we see for decades in this area and as i mantioned before southeastern europe is a usa field … it s very difficult to mess with the big boss !!!! :)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CRWQIPZ5KI4JJLAUGJKHSCGYHA atomic

    1) Greece isn’t ‘buying’ these tanks, they have been given to Greece by the U.S. The 2o million is for the transport of these tanks to Greece.

    2) All of you have neighbouring countries that abide by international law, that have signed the Law of the Sea convention and generally don’t infringe on your airspace, seaspace or question your country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Greece doesn’t have that luxury.

    3) The financial crisis in Greece has been known about for years in Brussels, long before the present Greek government made it public, that didn’t stop France, Germany and other EU ‘partners’ from selling billions of Euros of tanks, jets and submarines to Greece.

    4) The U.S along with France, Germany, UK and Russia has been taking advantage of the Greece-Turkey tensions for decades and selling both sides billions upon billion of dollars in arms.

    There’s no moral high ground here, all sides have been taking advantage of Greece.

  • Anonymous

    Heavens knows those tanks are going to come in handy to put down those pesky protesters.

    • Nzarkole

      none for that purpose .. greece is not turkey to bomb opposing citizens and villages !!!!

      • Anonymous

        You are speaking on behalf of the Greece government, I take?

        And, yeah, we’ve all got a chance to see how kind, loving and caring the Greek authorities are when it comes to treating their own citizens.

        • Nzarkole

          i m speaking on my behalf and i assure u i have nothing to do with the goverment … as for the treating you have seen how nice guys these fellows are … molotof bomb isn t the way to protest ……. burning stores also… when there is a demostration people who demonstrate are trying to keep these guys out …and of course president sarcozy who treated french citizens (mostly immigrants) who protested much worst (and arrested many of them unlike greek authorities) is ok ??? or recently in england ????

          • Anonymous

            Yep, you’ve convinced me. You’ve convinced me that you yourself are an agent provocateur. I know how it all works, been there, done that. Now, please, don’t keep coming back. You blather is falling in deaf ears.

          • molon labe

            Hello my little british friend dont you have any more countries to invade? Oh i forgot yore not the great empire you used to be,so stop giving other people orders that you disagree with if they have the right to come back or not. Mybe a century ago not anymore sorry lad.

  • Nzarkole

    wsj .Busting North-South Stereotypes.Article Comments (24) Real Time Brussels HOME PAGE ».EmailPrintTwitter
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    close StumbleUponMySpacedel.icio.usRedditLinkedInFarkViadeoOrkut Text By Matthew Dalton
    The euro-zone debt crisis has underlined one of Europe’s more enduring stereotypes, namely the division between the hard-working Northern countries versus the lazy South. And these stereotypes have to some degree filtered into the European Union’s policy debate over how to respond to the debt crisis.

    But the reality is more complicated than this: recently bailed-out Ireland, for example, does not appear to be in southern Europe. Excluding that inconvenient fact, there are other problems with the hard-working-North-versus-lazy-South narrative.

    For example, workers in which EU countries work the longest weeks? Tops are the Greeks, who work on average 42 hours a week. Spain and Portugal aren’t far behind with a work week of around 39 hours. And where is the shortest work week in the EU? That would be in the Netherlands, under 31 hours a week.

    Germans on average work just under 36 hours a week, significantly less than the hard-working Greeks they are now bailing out.

    Your first reaction might be: Here is yet another statistic that has been fudged by the Greeks. But not so, says Eurostat, which has several explanations for the numbers.

    First, part-time work is much more prevalent in the northern countries, particularly in the Netherlands and Germany. In Greece and the other southern countries, workers either have a full-time job or they are unemployed (increasingly the latter in the Age of Austerity).

    Women are also much more likely to work in the northern countries, particularly the Scandinavian nations, and women tend to work fewer hours than men.

    Second, a higher percentage of Greek workers tend to work in agriculture, where working hours are usually longer. The same is true for the other southern euro-zone countries that have run into trouble.

    What these numbers show is that the southern euro zone’s problems aren’t a result of workers there not working hard enough. The problem instead is lower productivity in the southern rim: In 2009, Greek workers generated just €18.50 per hour worked; for Spain and Portugal, the number is €24.40 and €13.80, respectively.

    Dutch workers generated €39.50 and German workers €38.70. Yes, the gap is huge.

    But what’s behind it? Is the right move to cut pensions and welfare benefits in the southern euro-zone countries, as the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank are urging? This will likely get the southern Europeans to work even more, but it won’t get them to work more productively.

    Part of the reason for the divide is that northern workers benefit from better technology and better infrastructure. A Greek worker trained as well as a German worker is still going to be less productive than a German worker because of superior German technology and infrastructure. But how do you narrow the gap in infrastructure and technology?

    An interesting example on this front is Ireland. Irish workers are among the EU’s most productive, generating €38.90/hour in 2009. The reason is Ireland’s low corporate tax rate has encouraged multinational firms, chock full of technological know-how, to set up in Ireland. This has boosted the productivity of Irish workers — but unfortunately much of the benefit from this higher productivity isn’t captured by the government through tax revenue; instead it flows out of the country in the form of profits, mainly to U.S. multinational corporations.

    But the lesson for the other euro-zone countries is clear. Their workers should either move to where the technology is (Germany, the Netherlands… Finland!). After all, that’s the story of the United States since the middle of the 19th century, when millions of workers from agrarian southern Italy, Ireland and Eastern Europe arrived to work in the booming U.S. industrial machine. Or these governments should get multinational firms to bring their technology to the southern euro zone.

    What will be very difficult is getting the southern euro-zone economies to boost their productivity without significant outside help.

  • jose spain

    if greecs have not enough money, you can get the weapons out and hire a little man. he could take the head out of the tank and insult the enemy, it isn’t hurtig but humillating.
    Pd:with an extra pay the guy can speak two more languages.

  • Steuerzahler

    Mein Gott sind wir bescheuert….

    • molon labe

      That is correct my good german friend.Ahh

  • Nzarkole

    another usefull information is that uncle sam will probably grant greece helicopters !!! you may clearly see that southeastern europe is still usa s field

  • One of the mental Finns

    Wow, this has been one of the most epic/funniest conversations ever.
    Now let’s all just hug each others shall we? :)

    • Leonidas

      I agree, I was waiting for a friendly Finn. How do you do Sir. Its all so funny, this tank story was a farce anyway. According to the Greek Government this is not happening at all. At least we all got to vent our frustrations at each others stereotypes.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3L55MY45S27S7TWKJZIM42KWA4 Jussi Kallionpää

    So much hate.

    I read all the comments. There is so much hatred and racism between us Europeans… Never really understood it. But when you put is in a tight situation like this. Is it really impossible to work together? We will see…

    - Concerned Finn

  • Darko Nikolovski

    Greece is Europe creation…so Europe need to solve this problem

  • OhBoy

    The news say, that Greece is paying more than 100.000 dead pensioners still pension, which their families take.
    Big decadency and Germany has to pay the majority of this theft.

    • Johanna

      This is old news my dear, do you want to hear the latest news? This tank deal was a farce! Lol

      • Nzarkole

        indeed … but the mess still exists

      • Nzarkole

        so they wont bomb with these tanks the protestors the troikans the greek people the tax collectors the alliens ???? what a mess ???? those undeveloped dumb thieves greeks cannot do anything right … even when they are granted something … just loosers :-)

    • Nzarkole

      that s not quite right … there was a census and there is a gap of 100 -120000 people .. now they are trying to see who is dead and who didn t take part in the census … the news in greece also say that if there weren t the euro n there was the deutch mark for germany the currency of germany would have gone up about 30-40% and that means a great hit for exports and for germans income ???? same picture different views … to my opinion either greece gets out of euro either europeans take the managment of the economic part of the country (for example tax collecting hospitals) …. eureka project sounds very good…. domestic politicians who created this mess cannot be part of the solution … nowadays minister of economics was the guy in charge for the olympic games and nobody really knows how much they cost … its a mess …

    • molon labe

      That’s right we greeks not only take care of our living but also our dead. See if you can do the same which is the right thing to do in their memory.

  • Carlos_ac_souza

    Grécia compra tanques dos EUA. Mas a Grécia não está falida? O que está por vir, deve ter algo de errado com esta crise mundial.

  • Nonofurbussines

    And i tought that greece is going bankrupt and that they need our money to keep their country up and running?

    And instead they are going to buy tanks from it?
    Something doesnt seem right about this.

  • Nzarkole

    latest news … the tanks are not going to be given …. greece is going to maintain the ancient m48

  • Nzarkole

    you may see in this chart (from morgan stanley) that greece is not such a mess in its private sector

  • jérémy collé

    Omg you fucktard, this world is really fucked up, sorting your debt out is not a priority??

    • Nzarkole

      that s not what that chart really shows … sorting greek debt is a priority probably to save the banks that got greek bonds (for bigger profit) and secondary for the people … if the banks were ok u really think that there was going to be any help???

    • Nzarkole

      fucktard ???? what a kind word that is ????

  • http://twitter.com/icecreamguru icecreamguru

    Is this for real? Greece is on the verge of bankruptcy, is albania going to attack them and steal their gold..??? Or is this the EU rescue money flowing to US to save their sorry arses :-)

    • Nzarkole

      us doesn t need any help … us can print as much money as it needs … that s the key for them

    • Nzarkole

      for the gold u r refering qatar fund (which mean americans ) just announce an investement … to my opinion enviromental groups will oppose n nothing will be done

  • wool

    @Makis44:
    “The euro, the most dangerous currency in the world”
    “USA 659%”
    Since the USA is AAA rated, the Euro should be AAAA rated.
    But the USA have problems to solve the financial crisis, as well as the Greece.

  • Veragott

    Given the choice and freedom to do so, I would ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to support Greece financially or any other way. I do not feel sorry for self-inflicted pain.

  • Rainer Siedler

    This is incredible! The EU has to pay for the greek, which hold their money private instead of spending it to the state which is bankrupt, and now they waste money for tanks!

    • molon labe

      That’s right we can not trust you germans after starting 2 world wars. So we need some extra tanks just in case . Like a wise man said once i think it was george bush (fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on hmm not sure well shame on you.)Yea that right it was that wise man the all mighty gerge bush the decider. etter him than you by the way

  • Neighbor ;)

    The Greeks should hire a couple of Iraqi army officers to teach them how to use those tanks as buried gun platforms, after all they can’t really afford the fuel for the tanks anyway :p

    • Nzarkole

      Commerce Minister of cyprus Praxoulla Antoniadou said that since drilling is being carried out, it means that hydrocarbon deposits are likely to be identified. But she cautioned that they are only half-way to drilling targets.

      “We are now about 2200 metres below the seabed and the goal is to reach 4000 metres. This is where we expect to locate hydrocarbon deposits,” she said in a written statement….. oooops ….that probably means fuel my neighbor, for many many things… that problem maybe solved !!!! : – )

      • Neighbor ;)

        Good for you. Spend all the money you’re collecting from your tax evading doctors, and the pittances your EU brethren are throwing your way ;)

    • molon labe

      Hey neighbor can you move a couple of blocks away . No make that a couple of thousand miles away. On second thought make that a couple of planets away.

  • Locomondos

    Dreams of USE (United States of Europe) from nations that wanted to rule each other not more than 50 years ago.Big mistake.You can read about it.No problemo i want out as a Hellin citizen from any Union.And by the way if we can take them cheap really cheap this time not like the F16 and patriots which we paid them rally hard lets take them.Prepare for War if you want Peace.Any way 2 times in history we heard the call of duty of the weak ”allies” and we crashed and burned in all areas and tried to rebirth from our ashes why not one more but this time with 400 of them and cheap

  • Nzarkole

    Replying to questions, the Commissioner recalled that the government of the Republic of Cyprus began some weeks ago drilling for hydrocarbon reserves in its EEZ, stressing the sovereign rights of all EU Member States to enter into bilateral agreements in accordance with the EU acquis and international law. He underscored that there is no room for threats, sources of tension or actions, which contradict the spirit of peaceful resolution of disputes, adding “there is no room for threats to use military force”….. what an idiot commissioner … he didn t read all the posts in this site to see that there is not and issue between the two NATO countries

  • Uwe Zankl

    unbelievable…is there nothing better they could with money they don’t even have…?

    • molon labe

      Like buy your village in africa sure why not.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1010574235 Grison Rajko

    Bravo!
    Koliko denarja smo jim dali?

  • Rodolfoster

    Be careful Greeks! Chicago boys reappears from time to time trying the coup d’etat. These tanks can be a Trojan horse.

  • Nebuna_tica

    maybe Gr33k Death ?

  • Felipe Vaiano

    By Greek gov spending on defense right now, can we expect a coup d’etat?

    • Tyroneez

      All these Turks pretending to be spaniards …
      It’s So funny
      So transparent
      So pathetic

  • stanvanhoucke

    mr. van vuuren,

    it is the military industrial complex which is in power. so don’t complain now. all nato-member states have accepted this since world war II. and about your tax-money, the dutch government has just decided to spent billions on a space shield, because the government suggests the iranians might attack us. if you believe this nonsense than you should not complain about the greeks.
    stan van houcke

  • stanvanhoucke

    mr. van vuuren,

    it is the military industrial complex which is in power. so don’t complain now. all nato-member states have accepted this since world war II. and about your tax-money, the dutch government has just decided to spent billions on a space shield, because the government suggests the iranians might attack us. if you believe this nonsense than you should not complain about the greeks.
    stan van houcke

  • ConcernedCitizen

    Good, I hope they wipe this stupid debt parasite country off the map.

    • nzark

      we don t u demonstrate in brussels??? … it would be very good to see how smart u really are

    • Tyroneez

      @concerned citizen above
      You idiot your country probably owes more to the banks …than Greece does ..

  • Tyroneez

    So much nonsense spoken here by our Dutch freinds
    Every government i’n every country spends more than it’s annual revenue …
    This budget deficit is financed by borrowing / against future growth
    Greece borrowed against it’s impressive 7 % GDP growth …
    It’s loans were at a low 3% and sustainable ..
    With the coming of the world economic crisis … The Greek economy stopped growing ..
    Precisely at this moment “the markets” decide to increase the interest rates for Greek delta to 23% clearly unsustainable fir any country ..
    So the Greek government asked it’s freinds and colleagues for s direct loan … Thus by- passing the greedy markets (banks) ..
    If merkel had not fighters for 3 months .. It would have berm ok
    50 billion loan would have done it ..the markets would have seen that it’s useless trying to charge Greece 23% / against EU solidarity ..
    But that did not happen

    • Tyroneez

      Continued
      Greece owes 350 billion euros approximately 30 billion is due for repayment each year ..
      This is usually financed by taking out a new loan , preferably by a cheaper Loan …
      Because of the world financial crisis and the markets refusing to lend Greece any money …
      It was at risk of defaulting …
      This would happen with any other country if it could not re- finance it’s loans ???
      Why should the markets try and charge Greece 23 % and Germany and France 3% ???
      Greece asked it’s partners for a loan / just to show the markets they could not play one country against one another ..
      But merkel fearful of german public oppinion and hostile press , who seem to think it would be a gift and not a loan ..
      Spent 3 months dithering …
      Germany borrows at 3% and lends to Greece at 5% thus it will make a healthy profit ..
      But i’n order to sell the deal to the I’ll informed german people / has demanded overly harsh and unacceptable austerity measures on the Greek people …
      Incidentally putting the Greek prime minister i’n an unattainable position …
      With an opposition irresponsibly labelling him a traitor , and claiming that he did nit get thd best possible deal , so he called their bluff , by threatening to ask the people , in a referendum .. Of course merkel smd sarkosi cannot risk the greek people rejecting the unjust package ..
      Because of their own peoples misguided objections ..
      So now the Greek opposition has been forced to aquise i’n the forced implementation of the package ..
      If they fail … Then everything could fall apart for thd euro

      • Stanvanhoucke

        tyroneez,

        you are absolutely right. more than 90 percent of all moneytransactions worldwide have nothing to do with goods or services, but with speculating. only 30 percent of this money really exists in banknotes and coins, the rest are digits on a computerscreen. greece is a good scapegoat for the bankers. they say their nasty game is based on trust. but, let’s be honest at least to ourselves: how can we trust banksters who are swindlers and are only in it for the money?
        stan,
        amsterdam.

  • Tyroneez

    And finally to all our financialy ignorant European freinds ..
    Thd Greeks far from being lazy , actually work the longest hours i’n Europe .. Much more than the so called industrious Germans even ..
    Don’t forget after the first world war Germany was unjustly forced into bankruptcy and hyper inflation / by excessive reparations demands from the allies …
    Which was the reason hitler came to power i’n all that chaos ..
    Luckily the allies did not make the same mistake twice / instead money was pumped in (the MacArthur plan) as investment to rebuild Germany and encourage growth …against American public oppinion , which could not understand why they should pay for the rebuilding of their recent enemy ..
    What Greece needs now is an EU (MacArthur plan) not harsh reparations to the banks

  • Tyroneez

    To all those misinformed commentators below , who say we should let Greece go bankrupt ..
    Obviously don’t understand that if that happens , the European banks will lose the 350 billion euros which Greece owes them …and then they will be bust …
    It’s not about getting the 350 billion back / banks survive on the interest payments they get from the money they have lent out / they are unfairly trying to charge Greece 23% …
    So it’s about Sustaining the interest flow from Greece to the banks .
    Thd last thing they Want is for Greece to declare bankrupt snd stop paying this interest ..
    So obviously Greece cannot be pushed to bankruptcy …
    All this argument is about the terms of the new loans to replace the old loans …
    But if the terms are to harsh / then they will be impossible to implement …
    It’s Europe’s call I’m afraid …
    Let’s hope they don’t get this wrong

  • Tyroneez

    Banks never keep money i’n a box ..
    They lend it all out were it can earn interest …the don’t want the original loan back ..
    Otherwise they will have to lend it out again ..
    What they need is the interest payments to keep flowing , thats all ..
    This crisis is because they tried to raise the interest rates on Greek debt from 3% to 23% …
    nobody can pay or tolerate such high interest rates ..
    It’s simply not sustainable / so Greece asked it’s EU partners for a direct LOAN and not a GIFT …
    But merkel and sarkosi are asking 5% interest for this and extreme austerity measures …
    Maybe the Greek people should refuse …
    And let’s see the European banks collapse …
    It’s what they deserve anyway ..for trying yo over charge Greece ..
    Then we will see what all these idiots commenting below ..will do when they go to the bank i’n the morning only to find the doors shut ..and their money gone ..

  • Rob Willems

    Well my dear friends, do you really think this discussion here is going to achieve anything at all?
    You are all just letting off steam but this will not change the Greek financial mess, nor will it help the rest of Europe to get out of its economic crisis.
    If you want to achieve anything you either join the “Occupy Wall Street” groups or you become a politician.
    Or you simply quit the bankrupt casino capitalistic system like the Dutch poster Natasja does because after the collapse of the USSR, the “victorious” post colonial “free” West is about to collapse too.

    BRIC countries now have the future and you will have to get used to giving up your comfortable lives ;-)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000421042083 Stan van Houcke

      we’ll my dear friend,

      the financial mess in greece was made under the supervision of an american bank, goldman sachs, which had to be saved with billions of american taxpayer money. so if you want to solve that, be my guest, start doing something against the major banks and their speculating with money.

      ‘Less than three years after receiving $10 billion in bailout money from American taxpayers, Goldman Sachs informed its employees recently that it will fire 1,000 workers in the United States and elsewhere, shifting their jobs to the cheaper Singaporean labor market.’

      http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/28/255724/goldman-sachs-outsource-1000-jobs-singapore/

      do something willems against the banksters, instead of trying to look smart

  • José Oliveira

    Os maiores inimigos do povo grego são os seus “AMIGOS”

  • Amazed

    Jesus. It just amazes me how Greeks still blame the Turks for everything even for their bankruptcy. Lazyness was your downfall and you kept thinking that as long as you hated the Turks, the world would keep taking care of you.

    Here are some facts for you:
    1- A single city in Turkey has more population than Greece itself. If they wanted to invade and conquer your country, they would have already.
    2-Greece has been teasing Turkey for decades doing stupid things like sending warships to little Turkish islands and placing their flags on them while Turkey just rolled its eyes.
    3-Turkish troops came to Cyprus because Turkish people were being slaughtered as a way of ethnic cleansing of Cyprus to have just a Greek population. Turkey had the right to defend its citizens in Cyprus in the event that they were attacked and this law was in a treaty. They weren’t just going to sit there while their people were literally thrown in meat grinders.
    4-Greeks are probably the most paranoid people on earth. Constantly thinking that the Turks are planning to invade their country while most Turks visit Greece for a weekend vacation.
    5-Greece spends the most money on propaganda and lobbying against the Turks. Hundreds of millions are spent on anti-Turkish propaganda (Maybe this is why they are going bankrupt?)
    6-When Greece is mentioned to Turks, they call them their neighbors while when Turks are mentioned to Greeks, they call them their enemy.
    7-Constantinople was a part of the Roman Empire. So calling it their old capital shows the level of their historical knowledge. Besides, it’s been a part of many Empires throughout the centuries so if the Greeks wanted this city so bad, why didn’t they point their fingers to these other empires and not only the Ottomans?

    Turks don’t want your country people. They have other important things to think about while you think of nothing but the Turks and wars 24/7. Turks are hard working people. The country is one of the most modern countries in Europe and its industry keeps growing.
    As you keep spending millons on anti-Turkish propaganda, people from all over the world keep visiting Turkey for vacation and see for themselves as to what’s true and what’s not.

    It is also very ironic that while the facts are outthere, I know someone will find some colorful words to reply to my post and nevertheless keep pointing fingers to Turkey.

  • Amazed

    Wow. My post was apparently deleted. I’ll post again and see what happens.

    Jesus. It just amazes me how Greeks still blame the Turks for everything even for their bankruptcy. Lazyness was your downfall and you kept thinking that as long as you hated the Turks, the world would keep taking care of you.

    Here are some facts for you:
    1- A single city in Turkey has more population than Greece itself. If they wanted to invade and conquer your country, they would have already.
    2-Greece has been teasing Turkey for decades doing stupid things like sending warships to little Turkish islands and placing their flags on them while Turkey just rolled its eyes.
    3-Turkish troops came to Cyprus because Turkish people were being slaughtered as a way of ethnic cleansing of Cyprus to have just a Greek population. Turkey had the right to defend its citizens in Cyprus in the event that they were attacked and this law was in a treaty. They weren’t just going to sit there while their people were literally thrown in meat grinders.
    4-Greeks are probably the most paranoid people on earth. Constantly thinking that the Turks are planning to invade their country while most Turks visit Greece for a weekend vacation.
    5-Greece spends the most money on propaganda and lobbying against the Turks. Hundreds of millions are spent on anti-Turkish propaganda (Maybe this is why they are going bankrupt?)
    6-When Greece is mentioned to Turks, they call them their neighbors while when Turks are mentioned to Greeks, they call them their enemy.
    7-Constantinople was a part of the Roman Empire. So calling it their old capital shows the level of their historical knowledge. Besides, it’s been a part of many Empires throughout the centuries so if the Greeks wanted this city so bad, why didn’t they point their fingers to these other empires and not only the Ottomans?

    Turks don’t want your country people. They have other important things to think about while you think of nothing but the Turks and wars 24/7. Turks are hard working people. The country is one of the most modern countries in Europe and its industry keeps growing.
    As you keep spending millons on anti-Turkish propaganda, people from all over the world keep visiting Turkey for vacation and see for themselves as to what’s true and what’s not.

    It is also very ironic that while the facts are outthere, I know someone will find some colorful words to reply to my post and nevertheless keep pointing fingers to Turkey.

    • Makos

      Amazed I am amazed by your stupidity for not being able to see your own post and saying that it was deleted.

      As for your points let’s see:

      1) Population is not the only factor in war. History proves that. For instance, if that was the case Israel would be long gone by now. Greeks know that very well because in their long history they were almost always outnumbered by their enemies but somehow managed to survive. Isn’t that strange eh?

      2)You are probably referring to the Imia incident. So this is a single incident.Wrong again. By the way all maps (US,Italian, even Turkish) were indicating that this island was Greek. Turkey of course, who started this incident as a way to question the status of at least half of the Aegean islands, removed these maps. Do a google search and you will find more on that. By the way have you ever read Davutoglu’s book called Strategic Depth? Do you know what it says about the Aegean? About the Dodecanese islands that should be treated like Cyprus? Do you have the open mind to read a book of your current FM (and influential politician as well) and understand who is the revisionist and aggressor in the region?

      3)No Greek did ethnic cleansing in Cyprus. Only Turkish occupying troops did that. UN resolutions on the issue is not an opinion, they are FACTS.

      4)This is your opinion or do you have any facts? Being Greek let me assure you that Greek people are not obsessed by anything else but their own troubles.

      5) Facts? Please get me the numbers for the spending in lobbying acts for both Greece and Turkey and let’s talk again because I think it will probably be the other way around.

      6)Is that you have been told or do you get all this out of your mind? Greeks are visiting Turkey more and more, they are doing business with Turks more and more and for God shake they even like to watch Turkish soap operas!!! So much for someone considered an enemy…

      7)Constantinople was the capital of the Roman Empire yes this is true. All historians however do not call it Roman Empire. They call it Byzantine Empire. For some reason. Because the transition of the capital from Rome to Constantinople marked a gradual shift towards the Christianization and Hellenization of the Empire. Greeks as a nation became the core of the empire (as the Turks was in the Ottoman empire) and the Greek language became empire’s official state language. Byzantines being mostly ethnic Greeks were considering themselves successors not only to the Romans but to the Ancient Greeks as well. So if Turks consider Istanbul historically theirs because it was Ottoman’s empire capital where Turks were the predominent nation what’s your point? By the way no reasonable Greek wants Constantinople back. Wake up!

      Greece of course does not want anything from Turkey in general, besides being left alone and living in peace just as the way countries in Western Europe do. This is the common feeling I assure you among the Greek people and its political leadership. If you have any clue about current military issues you should know that Greek armed forces holds a defencive stance while Turkish armed forces hold an aggressive one. This is underlined by the vast landing Turkish fleet opposite of the Aegean islands and by the vast number of tank bridges developed and deployed in Thrace by Turkey.

      As for the hard working people. Good for you. Greeks are also hard working. There are also official reports on that from the OECD. But this has nothing to do with state’s economics. For instance Turkey must hold a record in IMF submissions for economic help despite the fact that has hard working people. So do not point any finger to us.

      What’s really ironic is that you are referring to facts, but you fail to mention even a single one and instead you are saying your own ‘colorful’ opinion, if not propaganda, and yet you expect to have no answer to that???

      • Amazed

        Shows what kind of a person you are. My post was deleted but now I see it put back on here. And as you can see, I never directly insulted anyone on here or called them names, I just shared my opinion. But you go ahead and call me names like “Stupid”. Fine. I see that trying to have an intelligent and civilized conversation here is pointless.

        • Amazed

          “Tanks will be rolling in Turkey!”, “Constantinople will rejoin Hellenia”, “You barbarians”, “The Spartans are ready”, and etc are some of the colorful words I see both on here and elsewhere. If you’re saying that Greek hatred, paranoia and slandering of the Turks does not exist, even after reading all the posts on here, I don’t even know what to tell you.

          - I took the lobbying numbers from facts not from my head. Turkey doesn’t have a department concentrated on spreading anti-Greek propaganda like Greeks have against the Turks in almost every country.

          -As for Cyprus, no one ever said it belonged to the Greeks. If you look at the island’s history, it belonged to many civilizations so calling it a Greek island is a bit selfish. Besides, I read history books yes, but I avoid sided history books both from Greek and Turkish publishers. I take no sides, I just read true propaganda free history.

          -When it comes to Constantinople, I never said said it historically belonged to the Turks. You’re putting words in my mouth. As anyone can see in my post, I just said it never truly belonged to anyone since many ancients civilizations walked on it and had it and that constantly calling it a historically Greek city was being selfish as that’s what most Greeks keep saying.

          -Greeks being paranoid is not only my opinion. You can see people and the media all over the world saying this and if that does not satisfy you, just look at all the posts here. If you’re telling me that’s not paranoid, then I have nothing more to say.

          -as for 6-No it’s not what I’ve been told, its what happens. You’re acting like as if I’m speaking out of my *ss and I have no idea what I’m talking about or you want it to be seem that way. I don’t know which is true.

          -As for the Cyprus cleansing issue, I’m just amazed that you’re saying the Greeks did no cleansing on the island if you’ve read history. Do I have to remind you EOKA? You prefectly know what it is and what horrible things it did, even on the Greeks themselves. There are military reports from foreign sources which back up my meat grinder comment. I don’t want to talk about details here and start a flame war, but the Turks sure did not start any cleansing. They came to rescue their remaining people from being cleansed. They could have easily gotten the whole island but they stopped halfway and agreed on a treaty. The island was divided to avoid any further agression. Just as recently as late 1990′s a whole horde of Greek people attacked the Turkish border of Cyprus and you’re telling me that the Turks are the agressors?

          -I also like to point out that during an official voting event, the whole island of Cyprus was going to be unified and was going to join the EU if both sides voted YES for unification. almost %90 of the Turkish side voted YES while almost all of the Greek side voted NO for unification. Europe was literally shocked with their mouth open since this was going to be an end to the Cyprus issue. So after that fact, you’re telling me that the Greek people want a unification in peace?

          -Turks are of course going to have a strong fleet near their shores. Every country does. This is called a precaution. No country wants to be caught with their pants down and if you look at history, it’s been the Turks who’ve been constantly betrayed by their “allies”. After all those experiences, it’s normal for them to be ready in defense. If you want to talk about agressions in the Aegean, If you have a whole Greek fleet suddenly heading towards Turkey, only to place a Greek flag on an island the size of a football field, it’s very natural for the Turkish fleet, who don’t even see the tiny island on their radar to react. This type of nonesense happens most of the time in the Aegean. Actually this event was a laughing stock in the European papers at the time.

          -Greeks have tons of books preaching about one day invading and conquering Istanbul and whole of Turkey. Again a whole lot of books from politicians spitting hatred and fire towards the Turks for votes. Do I take these books seriously and call them the general opinions of all the Greeks? No I don’t. Just as I don’t take similar books from the Turks seriously.

          -As for Greek people visiting Turkey and watching Turkish soap operas, I never denied this. This is true just as the Turkish people visit Greece for vacations. This is actually very ironic to me. The two people are so similar in tastes and enjoying things among other things and yet they fall prey to this global political game in which they are the pawns. I want to actually close with this since this is really sad.

          on that note, I shouldn’t say that your post shows what kind of a person you are because just like most people, you have pride in your culture and may have reacted in a bit of anger with that “Stupidity” comment. It wasn’t called for, but at least that why I think it was said.

  • Nikolas

    Latest good news.Greek military officers are in the USA testing the tanks in order to decide and select from a large amount of tanks.Only the best for the Greek Army.Excellent news.

  • Tyroneez

    ToThe german / commentators on here

    Greece is quite capable of paying its loans at the normal rates !

    But Because the markets (german banks) quite arbitrarily decided to try and charge Greece 25% interest , for re-newing or rolling-over it’s existing loans …something every country does , on a regular basis …

    The Greek prime minister quite rightly asked his Eurozone collegues for a direct country to country loan … Thus bypassing the greedy markets …(IE the german banks)

    the so called bail outs …Are actually loans @5% interest …
    Germany and the others are borrowing from the markets @ 2%
    therefore a 3 % profit for Germany …
    So your still making your greedy profits …but not the absurdly unsustainable 25% …
    Get your facts right guys …
    And try and get over your racist tendencies ..i know it’s hard for you !!! … But you must try …
    Doesnt anything ever change with you people ??
    Your tried it i’n 1941 and Greece said (oxi) NO to you then
    And Greece won that argument …
    And Greece is saying (oxi) to your attempts at daylight robbery once again
    Nice try guys … But nothing doing !!!

    And for your information Greece spends only 2% of GDP on defence …
    It’s not enough to make a difference to the overall debt …
    It’s like saying , remove the locks and windows on your house … Just because you have an outstanding loan on your credit card ???
    Another fact for you …. Germany owes the markets far more than Greece ….and the markets could turn on Germany at anytime ….
    But thanks to Greece the eurozone has been forced to put a contingency fund of 1000 billion euros i’n place …
    (something that should have been done , when the eurozone was set up i’n the first place )…
    For it’s members to use … If the markets try that 25% nonsense on any of us again …
    It’s already saved Spain and Italy …
    So instead of vilifying Greece …
    You ignorant fools
    You should be thanking us …
    Little Greece brave stand against the crazy bankers …
    SAVES EUROPE FROM THE THIEVING GERMANS (BANKS) AGAIN
    The same as i’n 1941
    And who was the wolf at the door i’n 1941 ???
    NONE OTHER THAN THE GREEDY THIEVING GERMANS
    How stupid can you be … Don’t you know that if Greece were to give i’n to the markets …
    And Greece goes under … You all go under ???
    You Stupid ungrateful chauvanist , morons
    And as for that treacherous little Dutch squirt on here (r van vuuren) … Your vacuous comments on here are beyond contempt …
    You need to check How much does holland owe the markets First ?? .. before you open your uneducated mouth..
    Or maybe you think you can try and get Indonesia to pay it for you ?? Just like i’n the old days ??…
    No i don’t think so …ha ha ha
    You didn’t like it very much when your german brethren made a colony out of you …
    Imperialist dog … Eats imperialist dog ??
    It fell to Greece to rescue your butt …
    Otherwise you would be licking the Gestapo’s boots in some german work camp …And begging for your watery soup in broken german …
    You illiterate little fool

  • Stavros

    I spend 1 hour reading most of the comments here and its amazing.Why anyone should care about what another random person says on an random internet site?
    Its trully amazing!!!

    PS:its not in anyone hands to do anything about the Economic situation in EU and in Greece.You think that politicians care about your opinions all of you??you are deluded to the maximum

  • stavros

    And you are equally deluded if you believe that you are in control of your financial.

  • Stanvanhoucke

    stavros,

    πολίτης δ’ ἁπλῶς οὐδενὶ τῶν ἄλλων ὁρίζεται μᾶλλον ἢ τῷ μετέχειν κρίσεως καὶ ἀρχῆς.

    the stupidity is that most people, including greeks, think they could leave politics to the politicians, and now they have to pay the price they start grumbling. so, your remarks only illustrate this stupidity. let people speak and let them claim politics back.

  • Yiannisslave

    Fuck you all,you don’t know shit about nothing and you play it as if you know things.
    First those tanks are for free,we spent money only for shippment,secondly stop listening to some ”journalists” claiming about greeces budget for defence and if you wanna know with numbers I don’t think that 2 billion euros is high amount for an annual budget of the Ministry of Defence

    • Stanvanhoucke

      let he greek elite spend the money on the poor, and on education, housing, healthcare etc. stop being a chauvinist.

  • Yorgo_zervos

    Dear Van Vuuren

    I can understand your comments when you have a neigbour like Germany, or France Or Belgium ,from whom you cannot expect any aggression from them on your country for the “time being”
    I would like to remind you that times and geopolitical situation can change any moment.,,,,Germany made 2 world wars to conquer their neigbours and Europe, and maybe, nobody knows, maybe they will try it a third time if not by military means but this time by econimic means…
    You know your neighbours better then us, but allow me to say also that we know our neighbours better then you!!!.
    I am a business man , and i travel a lot, even to Turkey, i have several turkish freinds and maybe i can consider one of them like a brother..when i visit Turkey i always have political discussions with our feinds the turks, and during these discussions i am trying to be very objective and try to approach the ideas, but beleive me, what i hear , even from my freinds the turks is not encouraging…
    We are leaving in an area very close to the middle east and to islamic fanatism ,which is spreading slowly slowly in turkey. and apart from that, the hate that exist between turkey and all it neigbours , even with a portion of it population cannot be discribed , which is the result of the massacres and behaviour of the turks since the ottaman occupation of the middle east and the balkans till “vienna”..
    just name me one country neigbouring to turkey that has “good reltions” or has “zero problems” with them///who? Syria ? Armenia ? Georgia? Bulgaria ? Greece?, Cyprus ? Serbia ? THE KURDS? Who are being sloughtered daily !!!!…even if you speak to the turkish cypriot ,i mean to the real turkish cypriot you will understand their feeling towards the turks and what they realy want.
    My Freind, it is wriiteen in the “CORAN” , “NO MUSLIM CAN BE RULED BY AN INFIDEL” INFIDEL MEANS WHOEVER IS NOT MUSLIM”….so tell me how can you coexist with such people and dis-arm yourself…???maybe for the time being you cannot feel the real threat of the muslim fanatism which is also spreading slowly slowly in northern and western Europe even in the states….i think you hear some of the problems already existing in France, Germany ,Belgium, Holland….the muslim fanatism is like a cancer which is spreading slowly slowly in a human body, anw now it is spreading in Europe….Do not tell me about Human rights etc….this is a nice song my freind which we all like, but , how can you convince some people about the value of the human rights when they do not have them or beleive in these values , and they do not want to have them since their holy book “the coran” do not allow them to have same??? a simple example why shall we “the christians? or if you are not a christian , let us say Europeans ,accept to build for them Mosques in Europe, while they do not allow the christians or any other religion to build their own churches or holy places in their countries???? the best and specialist in ethnic cleansing in the muslims my dear, and turks are muslims….look what happened and what is happening to the christians in Iraq, or in Lebanon, or in Egypt or even in Turkey ,in turkey they were Greeks,Armenians,and several other ethnic populations , tell me where are they now ???!!!!!!!My Parents are Greek from Turkey, they were obliged to leave from costantinople ,(istambul) if you like,in 1956 when they burned all the churches and the christian distrcits…..we came to Lebanon where we lived another war ,but thanks to God we are still here resisting , and you can understand what experience we have from the attitude of the muslims and their plan of spreading islam all over the world, and beleive me their first target after they finish with the christians and maybe the jewish in the middle east ,is Europe….Look what the high Mufti of Saudi Arabia said few weeks ago ” all churches in the middle east must be burned, as there is no place for the infidels in the muslim world” ….my freind it is not a matter of Turkey only , but unfortunatly Greece is the door to Europe , so if Greece falls Europe will Fall , Greece is the eastern sentinel of Europe, we or you like it or not , this is the fact…everybody knows this, the Americans know it, the Frensh Know it, OUR Freinds the Germans know it, this why they are selling us arms or giving us free arms (for your reference it is not only the 400 Tanks that the Americans are giving us for free with many thanks, but also there are talks for 60 UH-60L Black Hawks Helicopters , more them 300 hummvees , 60 EUROFIGHTERS FROM BRITAIN AND GERMANY THAT ARE ALSO GIVING TO US FREE , I REPEAT FREE…DON’T MENTION THE SUBMARINES, THE LEOPARDS (tanks) THAT WE BOUGHT FROM GERMANY THE FRIGATES “FREMM” THAT THEY (THE FRENSH) ARE STILL NEGOCIATIING US TO BUY…ETC…)…you think they like us toooo much to give us all this help ot making us buy these arms??? my freind they are obliging us!!! first of all to “protect” them and second to boost their economy as all these weapons need maintenace and spare parts……
    Also you are criticising us why we must have a strong military…tell me why not? when you have a neighbour that is pretending to be a freind and at the same time is buying tromendous number of weapons while more the 60 percent of it population is living in povrity!!!??? do you know what are the weapons that the turks are buying did you ask your self one time why are they buying them and for which purpose????? to defend them selves from whom ? the Greeks? The Syrians? The Armenians? The Georgians ? The Bulgarians , WHO ????????????THEY HAVE THE 7TH BIGGEST ARMY IN THE WORLD!! THE SECOND IN NATO AND THE FIRST IN EUROPE ( OF COURSE IN NUMBERS ) WHAT FOR?? TELL ME ….WHAT FOR THE 4600 tanks they have? what for 700.000 stong men?? the 500 fighter planes they have plus the 100 F.35 JSF THAT THAY BOUGHT FROM THE U.S.A? WHAT FOR ALL THESE AMPHIBIOUS VESSELS THEY HAVE OR THEY ARE BULDING?? THE SUBMARINES THEY HAVE 14 PLUS 6 THEY ORDERED FROM GERMANY ,THE FRIGATES MORE THEN 25 UNITS.. OR ALL THESE HELICOPTERS MORE THEN 400 TRANSPORT AND ABOUT 30 + 60 NEW ATTACK HELICOPTERS THEY BOUGHT FROM ITALY ??? ABOUT 4000 ARTILLERY PEICES , AND THE MEDIUM AND LONG RANGE SURFACE TO SURFACE MISSILES THAT THEY ARE BUILDING… ,OFF COURSE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO USE THEM AGAINST SYRIA OR ARMENIA OR GEORGIA OR ISRAEL NOW…WHO HAS ISLANDS MY FREIND? WE DO, SO EVEN THE LAST STUPID OFFICER IN ANY ARMY IN THE WORLD CAN SEE AND REALISE THIS……DO YOU KNOW ALSO THAT THEY HAVE PLANS TO BUILD AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER ?? AND NUCLEAR STATION WHICH WILL RESULT TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS….WHAT FOR???????IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE GREEKS, THINK OF YOURSELF…HOW YOU SHALL PROTECT YOUR SELF, YOUR FAMILY ….ESPECIALLY THAT NOW MOST OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE REDUCING OR REDUCED THEIR ARMED FORCES WHLE OTHER ARE INCREASING THEM STARTING FROM TURKEY , PASSING BY ALL, REPEAT ALL THE ARAB COUNTRIES, IRAN ,CHINA AND ENDING WITH THE NEW RUSSIA…..
    We need, unfortunatly, a strong military , because we canot count on any one except our selves to defend our country first, and maybe all Europe from the outcoming threat that is coming from the east ,and which is near ,very near my freind…. …
    We are a proud people my freind who endured a lot during our existence…from the time of the persians until now, passing by the ottomans, the german and italian occupations and now the daily (uknown to you) problems with our allies , neighbours and freinds the turks….
    you beleive that being both of us(greece and turkey) in NATO will prevent the turks to make their plans??/ if so why do we have these daily incursions by air and sea of our borders??? what has a turkish frigate to do near “sounio” which ia a place around 60 km from Athens? (take a map and check by your self…)….i would like to know what will be the turks reaction if they see a Greek Frigate near Costantinople, or istanbul as you know it, or even Izmir ????!!!!!
    The Turks are playing a clever game, and beleive me, when they will think that it is the time and they are ready the will strike…they did it previously several times and recently in Cyprus, and now they are trying to impose themselves in the eastern mediteranean…SO they will do it again …..this is not a peacefull country, but a country that is looking for expansion, a country which is looking to bring back the ottoman empire…and beleive me , all the countries that were previously occupied by them, not only the greeks, but the egyptians, the syrians, the saudis, the jordanians , the bulgarians , and several other countries are afraid from this issue…they all lived under the turkish boots for hundreds of years and they all know what and who they are ,no matter how much freindly they are trying to be or to show themselves…

    lastly my freind, if we and you are real europeans, and we want this “dream” of unified europe to be a fact, allow me to say , it is not correct when a country is in difficulty ,now Greece, tomorrow maybe Italy, or Portugal , or Spain , Or Ireland or ….”God Knows” to help this country by giving it loans with high , very high interests!!!, when you want to help a partner country in this dream which is europe, you help by giving loans ,yes, but without interests, you help this country by making investments, you help this country buy encouraging its industry, its agriculture, you help this country by creating jobs which will arise from the investments, you can help a country to take cheep loan from other countries like Russia, or China and to open it markets to these countries…not preventing it and obliging it to sign this agrement with EE AND IMF which all of us know that no country, even your country ,which i hope with all my heart that will never pass what Greece or the southern countries of Europe are passing, can accept to implement on its population..it is unfair my freind…you might be correct of the politicians in Greece or even in several other countries that they come to power with one idea in their mind ” how to steel the people’s money”…..but at the end the people will judge them, history will judge them, and of course the mighty God also will give his last judgment…the main issue is that all people (greeks, italians, spanish etc…) to learn from what is happening or happened in their countries in order not to have the same problems in the future….

    i have a lot of other things to say , but i will leave them to another time, and i would like very much to have you idea or comments of what i said above..

    thanks
    George..

    • Tyroneez

      @yorgo-zervos above
      Excellent comment , explaining all the correct points … For mr R. Van vuuren ??? ….
      But he already knows the truth anyway …
      He is just commenting His nonsense on here … Just to try and confuse everyone …
      Or he is an extremist Turkish nationalist …
      Or a Turkish foreign office propaganda agent …
      It’s hard to believe a Dutchman could be so ignorant of the issues
      The best thing to do is ignore him in future !!!
      Once again congrats on your factual comment
      My friend

  • Srt-10

    Greece has not even asked the US to write up an LOA…….so this article is lame. If/when they ask for an LOA, it will take 6-12 months just to write…….so its not “expected soon”.

    They have been “allocated” 400 excess tanks that they can choose to accept or turn down; nothing more at this point.

  • Harun71

    Dear Greek Friends,

    As being a Turkish guy but having a lot of Greek friends , I have a very friendly advise; Please undertake the responsibility of Greek governments old mistakes done economically and stop accusing every body about the situation. It looks that every body is mistaken but just Greeks are fine. If you do accept all mistakes, you can easily recover the situation and do not put a great nation to such a bad position like this. If you keep on having same attitude, I regret to tell you that you will have much worst situations.

    TO ALL: Please stop judging the past with nationalism. There might be of course bad Turks but of course there are also bad Greeks or other nationals . Do not blame complete nation because of past mistakes. Do not forget that all nations history is full of shame since it was uncivilized times compared to today. But what is making me sad is still at this age same story going on instead of creating a better world together.