Greece’s New Centrality – and Dilemmas – in Energy

Greece began assuming a new geopolitical significance in May and June 2012 as the “energy war” — or “pipeline war” — between US and Russian interests took on a new intensity. While, in many respects, Moscow has effectively dominated the competition to this point, the US has begun waging a campaign to ensure that non-Russian options gain ground in the provision of oil and gas to the European markets.

In this regard, the prospect of major gas flows from Eastern Mediterranean offshore fields into Europe, via Greece, give Athens a new leverage in European affairs — and in the thoughts of Washington — which counteracts the economic and political malaise which led up to the June 17, 2012, Parliamentary elections in Greece. The Eastern Mediterranean energy discoveries reaching through Israeli, Cypriot, and Greek waters, and south into Egyptian waters, could mark the strategic turning point for Greece. Equally, Turkey has begun moves to demand a share of the bounty, even as its energy fortunes begin to wane with the reality that the Nabucco pipeline — which would have transited Turkey — was no longer economically or politically viable.

But if Washington has been thwarted by Russia over Nabucco, it has begun [in May and June 2012] applying strong, discreet pressure on Greece and Serbia over the exploitation and transit of Mediterranean gas, in a move to counter Moscow’s pipeline dominance.

The Greek energy firm, Energean Oil & Gas, formerly known as the “Ægean Energy Company”, indicated in June 2012 that it was expanding its investment in oil exploration projects in Greece’s developing offshore fields. The decision was based on the fact that Greek national council for energy policy, in an official report published on May 25, 2008, stated that “production from the oil fields in the Northern Ægean could reach 200,000 barrels per day… Greece is one of the least explored countries in Europe regarding its hydrocarbon potentials.”

During 2009, Energean successfully completed two offshore extended reach wells in the Gulf of Kavala (in Eastern Greece), bringing on stream the Prinos North and Epsilon fields. This resulted in a significant increase of production rates, to 5,000 barrels of oil a day from 1,000 a year earlier.

In addition, the Greek Ministry of Energy recently approved the acquisition by Ægean Energy of a 70 percent interest in the Sea of Thrace offshore concession license. This offshore field, located in the north-eastern Ægean near Turkey, comprises an area covering a total of 1,600 square kilometers. Further, in 2009 Energean also acquired a 2,000 sq.km. 2D Seismic survey for offshore Greece identifying new exploration targets, currently being evaluated. This seismic survey is a geological research product and it shows the indications for hydrocarbon reserves in the specified area.

At the same time, the company has also been investing in Egyptian offshore drilling through its subsidiary, Ægean Energy (Egypt) Limited. Through it, the company has received from Egypt’s Ministry of Petroleum the Deed of Assignment for the transfer to it of a 60 percent net interest in the West Kom Ombo (WKO) Block from Groundstar Resources.

A further 20 percent was expected to be approved through a series of transactions resulting in a final holding of 80 percent for Energean Oil & Gas; moreover, it will be the operator of the Block, with Groundstar retaining a 10 percent net carried interest.

The Egyptian authorities during May and June 2012 granted all of the necessary approvals. The company also scheduled a series of infrastructure projects in WKO.

The contract for drilling was awarded to the Sino Tharwa Drilling Company, while the US Haliburton Company would take care of the project management for drilling. Previous findings by Canada’s Gustavson Associates estimated that recoverable oil in WKO should amount to approximately 570-million barrels.

The estimate by both the company and by Greek energy analysts was that the Prinos “Epsilon” field had approximately 50-million barrels and 17,000 to 20,000 barrels a day could be produced over the next couple of years. A more interesting aspect was the overall potential of all known offshore fields in Greece. Recent scientific and economic conferences have presented figures of approximately 22-billion barrels in the Ionian Sea (off the coast of western Greece) and some four-billion barrels in the northern Ægean Sea. Of these, 10 percent could be exploited and be financially viable.

In early December 2012, drilling equipment was expected to arrive in the Prinos offshore oil field, while existing production at the Epsilon field would be stabilized. Further, new drilling would begin during a second stage- the company discovered (through its previous exploration assessments) that significant recoverable amounts of oil exist there. The current investment planning was estimated at around 20-million euros. Cumulatively, the company’s five year investment plan exceeded 200-million euros.

The Greek Government’s desire to proceed in the exploitation of these oil reserves was highlighted by plans to create, in due course, an organization which would manage the research and exploitation activities. It would also be responsible for attracting prospective investors. The region involved — according to determinations made in late 2007 — has a total surface area of around 62,000 sq. km. (32,447 sq. km. land, and 28,250 sq. km. of sea).

The 2008 findings of Greek Prof. Antonis Foskolos, and earlier by the Canadian geological service, were that “the region has the potential for up to two-billion barrels of oil”. Significantly, the region discussed is not related to the seabed and EEZ confrontation between Greece and Turkey, an issue of importance for the Ægean Sea.

The former Minister of Industry in Greece, Evangelos Kouloumbis, has said since the 1990s that Greece had significant opportunities in this respect. He recently told the newspaper Ethnos that Greece could cover “50 percent its needs with the oil to be found in offshore fields in the Ægean Sea, and the only obstacle to that is the Turkish opposition for an eventual Greek exploitation”.

Turkish opposition is mainly related to the chronic failure to reach an agreement regarding the sovereignty of the seabed between the two countries. As Prof. Theodoros Kario- tis, of Maryland University in the US, explained: “Greece has a lot to gain regarding the oil fields if it signs a deal with Turkey based on a double agreement that will divide both the seabed and the EEZ.”

On the other hand, the ex-minister for energy and an expert on the oil and gas business, Andreas Andrianopoulos, recently made remarks on the issue. At a conference in Athens in November 2010, he stated that “the majority of arguments relating to mass amounts of oil in the Greek territory are based on the so- called ‘assumed fields’, which means that any research and exploration projects may well prove that the amounts discovered are much less than initially estimated, thus bringing no real return on investment, [making them] not financially viable in essence.”

The overall debate within Greece has been heated during the first half of 2012. Strong support for future exploitation was made on well-known Greek television journalist, Kostas Hardavellas, in his show on Alter Channel. The program brought together eminent experts, geologists, and energy analysts, who provided ample data for the existence of significant amounts, not only of oil but also of natural gas, worth potentially hundreds of billions of euros, transforming Greece’s presently straightened economic circumstances.

A major oil and gas find would change dramatically the geopolitical equation in the Eastern Mediterranean region and beyond. To start with, it has promised to transform Israel’s economic and strategic fortunes, in terms of energy independence and security. However, Lebanon contends that part of the gas field lies within its territorial waters, and Washington happens to agree.

Recent discoveries of not just significant, but huge oil and gas reserves in the little-explored Mediterranean Sea between Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Israel, Syria, and Lebanon suggest that the region could become literally a “new Persian Gulf” in terms of oil and gas riches.

Long-standing Middle East conflicts could soon be paled by new battles over rights to oil and gas resources beneath the eastern Mediterranean in the Levant Basin and Ægean Sea. Here we explore the implications of a gigantic discovery of gas and oil in offshore Israel. It is not improbable to suggest that the Eastern Mediterranean energy prospects have a key impact on US and NATO political intervention in Syria. One key event occurred (April 29, 2008) when Russia and Greece signed on an intergovernmental agreement on cooperation on the construction and operation of the Greek section of the South Stream gas pipeline. Russian officials convinced their Greek counterparts that they would have full support from Russia, and reiterated the theme of Orthodox Christian solidarity. At the same time, Greece ignored US warnings that an agreement with Russia would negatively impact US-Greek relations.

Greece is now in a difficult position.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Special Envoy for Eurasian Energy, Richard Morningstar, have met with their Greek counterparts to outline to them Washington’s views. What had been key during recent years in this regard was the special rôle in all US negotiation and in the architecture of US policy in Central Asia, the Caucasus, Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus of stridently pro-Turkey former US Ambassador Matthew Bryza, who — fortunately for Greece — left US diplomatic service in March 2012 when the US Senate would not confirm his recess appointment by the Obama White House as Ambassador to Azerbaijan. [Since April 2012, Morningstar has been candidate Ambassador to Azerbaijan, awaiting conformation by the US Senate. Formally he remains the special envoy but in reality he has been fighting Senate enemies.]

According to the new Greek Minister, Prof. Dr Simos Simopoulos, the US has not left many options open to Greece. Washington made it clear that any energy windfalls needed to ensure that national debt needed to be repaid as a primary objective. The natural resources of Greece, the US insists, to be made available to foreign investors. Indeed, the US has said that 60 percent of revenues would go to US and US backed companies, 20 percent to Turkey, and 20 percent for Greece. It is clear that US wants to keep Greece in its own sphere of interest but it is also clear that US wants to reduce or entirely end Turkish dependence of Russian-controlled gas supply.

Turkey is still seen by Washington — despite Turkish actions contrary to US interests in recent years — as the key regional country for the US. The strategic proposal pushed by Washington, under which Turkey would receive 20 percent of Greece’s offshore energy resources would keep Turkey satisfied for its own needs and also — as a quid pro quo — Turkey would not block further exploration of natural gas in Ægean Sea.

At the same time, Turkey as member of NATO, started to play significant rôle in Afghanistan and Central Asia under US guidance and support. During the meeting between US and Greek official it was clearly underlined — by the US — as follows:

1. The US, Greece, and Turkey are NATO allies, so all disputes needed to resolved peacefully in the spirit of good cooperation. In that light, Greece and Turkey needed to agree on several key issues such as joint exploration and pooling of oil from the Ægean Sea and mutual industrial exchange, including the export and import of goods.

2. The Greek Government should freeze cooperation with Moscow on the issue of the South Stream pipeline. Greece and Turkey were encouraged to work on the US-backed TGI [Turkey, Greece, Italy] pipeline. TGI is a project between Turkey and Greece that will deliver Azeri gas to EU markets. Considering Europe’s tremendous need for energy supplies (specifically gas), and in light of Russia’s intimidation-based energy policy towards the EU (as the US perceives Moscow’s stance), access to an alternative source of gas is extremely important. TGI was, US officials claimed, already making real progress, and by the end of 2012 Azerbaijan would start sending small volumes of gas to Greece via TGI. In nine years, Azerbaijan could export one-third of what Russia currently sends to Europe. This significant volume would free the EU to a considerable extent from Moscow’s grip. That would be a perfect and desirable scenario for the EU and the US.

TGI, however, remains a pipedream. There is not enough Azerbaijan-origin gas to sustain it, so the bulk of the gas it would carry in the initial stage would have to come from Russia via the operational Blue Stream pipeline on the Black Sea bed, and the planned Blue Stream 2 upgrade. Even if the gas production in Azerbaijan is fully realized in the coming decade, the existing pipelines via Georgia which are supposed to feed the TGI line are incapable of transporting these quantities of gas. Moreover, the Turkish gas-pipeline system is based on the assumption that large quantities of Iranian gas (highly subsidized for the Turkish market) soon become available due to cancellation of sanctions. Under these circumstances, a growing volume of the Azerbaijani (and most likely Turkmenistani) gas will be exported via Russia using the northward Azerbaijan-Russia pipeline. The only way Azerbaijani (and Turkmenistani) gas can be transported to Turkey in a profitable way is if a new south-track pipeline is constructed along the Iranian border, but such a pipeline could only be built after the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Russia supports a south-track pipeline because it will markedly reduce the strategic importance of Georgia. The US, however, is beholden to supporting the Armenians due to domestic-political considerations, thus making this pipeline impossible in the foreseeable future.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, during her last visit to Greece, in July 2011, clearly said that all revenue absorbed from oil exploration deals would have to be used to repay Greece’s international debt. Part of the US demand was also a law privatizing many of Greek’s public institutions. Indeed, the law on privatization of public property passed by the Greek Government recently left open the possibility of liquidating assets to creditors of all of Greece’s mineral wealth, including its proven reserves, as well as those which could be discovered in the future and the total potential revenue from them.

The bottom line: The US Obama Administration is trying to help Ankara in whichever way possible in order to embolden Ankara’s support for the various Muslim Brothers and other Islamist movements rising in the Arab world: from Libya and Egypt to the escalating war in Syria.

Source: oilprice.com

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  • kasomoulis

    “The strategic proposal pushed by Washington, under which Turkey would receive 20 percent of Greece’s offshore energy resources would keep Turkey satisfied for its own needs and also — as a quid pro quo — Turkey would not block further exploration of natural gas in Ægean Sea.”

    What the heck is the difference between this ass deal proposal and having mafia skimming your revenue for protection. I can’t say I agree with all of the above!
    This sounds like they would not pay for the oil? Then why would the Greeks allow exploration at all. Hell…. leave it be a tourist atraction forever! Maybe it is time for the Greeks to wake up and understand they have to fight for what is rightly theirs!
    20% would not be able to pay for Greece’s debt – on the other hand Turkey will use these to buy/develope more weapons – Are they thinking strait or are they having their heads in the sand???

    • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

      Kaso:

      No need to get upset. None of this will ever happen.

      Just look at the Black Sea. Every country has its own EEZ and 12-miles territorial waters and each country is allowed to explore within its own EEZ.

      This is precisely what will happen to Greece also. Whatever our EEZ contains that we will have 100%. UNCLOS demands it. The EU law demands it.

      The die has already been cast. We are way past this fabricated issue of sharing.

      BTW, Israel has already recognized the Greek EEZ. And as such it has been written into treaties and other arrangements. There is no way to go back on it. Not any more.

      • kasomoulis

        I understand that Dean, what upsets me is that they misquote people like Theo Kariotis and Hilary Clinton. If you read Stern’s book (past ambassador to Greece – paid plenty by the Turks (?) to write it!) and the rest of what they are dreaming up and writing about since, you know that they are trying hard to keep Greece from staying in the 21st century.

        • Makos

          Kasso what is the title the book you are referring to? I do not know about it but it will be interested to read it.

          Regarding the 20% share read my comment above.

          By the way Mr. Kariotis is a true patriot. Even though I do not fully agree with him on all issues I recognize his expertise and above all his trully patriotic stance. I must also say that I would prefer that PASOK had put him in the first position of the national list (‘Epikrateias’) instead of Pyros Dimas (it reminds me of Schwarzenegger in California or maybe a bodyguard of PASOK MPs against Golden Dawn.). Kariotis presence in the Greek parliament would be so usefull and at the same time would give the right political message to the world. Maybe next time….

          • kasomoulis

            Makos,
            see my correction above, the book is;
            ENTAGLED ALLIES
            by Monteagle Stearns
            (a council of foreign relations book)
            ISBN # 0-87609-110-9
            He is not arguing about the EEZ but rather the sea bed – arguing that even if shared the Aegean greatest share goes to Greece… B.S. really.
            Makos, these things are going on since the antiquity – the one thing I am proud of the Greek politicians, whatever color, is that they have not seem to have given up anything yet – because they would have been ostracized… or from true patriotism… whatever the reason! Bravotous!

        • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

          There is no way that Clinton ever said something like this. A Secretary of State could not have made a statement like this because it’s out of her juristiction. It’s just like asking a Foreign minister to opine on matters relevant to the Finance minister. Not only it’s undiplomatic but also out of depth to even attempt saying something like this.

          As for Prof. Kariotis he already said it’s not his statement.

        • kasomoulis

          Correction; appologies, the book was written by M. Stearns (not Stern), who served in the council on foeign relations – not as an ambassador to Greece.
          I read it back in 92 – So this is going on since.
          The Greeks could have actually develeped their resources and not be in the current predicament. Tell me I am wrong when I blame you know who for this!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

    BTW, because I know who Theodore Kariotis is I can tell you that the statement of the “double agreement” falsely attributed to him could be nothing further from the truth. This is a totally contrived and fabricated statement by someone at Oilprice.com who has an agenda.

    • Theodore Kariotis

      I completely agree. This is a totally contrived and fabricated statement.

      Theodore Kariotis

    • Makos

      Well done Dean. Thanks for exposing this.

    • canavar

      Dean, A few days ago you told me not to take seriously Stratfor’s article on Russia’s goal to thwart the US everywhere. This article seems to confirm Stratfor’s comments. I’m glad you told us that it is seriously flawed with propaganda and spin trumping veracity.
      But if the part on America is true, I’m very depressed. Erdogan is again embraced against Greece’s will and Greece is relegated to a vassal state of the US. Is this part false too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

        Canavar:

        I don’t think you should look at it this way.

        Russia’s job is to expand its sphere of influence and US’s job is to do the same. When the two spheres intersect, other players come in and actually provide the ingredients for a “win-win” outcome.

        It’s not in the US character to seek or promote dependencies such as the “vassal state” idea you promote. Americans are free people and want their partners to have the mentality and mannerisms of free men and women.

        This is the beauty of Game Theory. When you have more than two players, everyone could and should win. That’s why Greece is a game participant. An intelligent game participant I might add.

        • canavar

          I know nothing about game theory (a disgrace since von Neumann was one of the greatest mathematicians, was a key member of the Manhattan project, has one of his Ph.D’s in my next neighbor field — chemistry, and was a classmate of the Nobel prize winning theoretical physicist Eugene Wigner). But your comment about America’s intent coincides with my picture of our beloved country, not what the article says. Anyway despite Israel’s enormous need for America, and despite attempts we have not succeeded to turning Israel into a vassal.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Agreed.

            In terms of game theory, here is an example. If you play chess there are two players so most likely one is a winner and the other a loser.

            In game theory, when you have more than 2 players there are actually ways for everybody to be a winner.

            So, modern states try to play the game as a “win-win” proposition.

          • canavar

            Although this is way off the issues here, I want to tell you a little about one of my greatest scientific heroes Johnny (all friends and peers called him Johnny) von Neumann. He was a genius among genius’ .Some say he was the 2d greatest scientific mind of the 20′th century–the greatest of course was Einstein. I will mention what two illustrious theoretical physicists and Nobel Laureates Wigner and Bethe said about him.
            Eugene Wigner was Johnny’s grade school and high school classmate. He said quite seriously that von Neumann give him a “lifelong inferiority complex”.
            Hans Bethe who won his Nobel for figuring out the sequence of nuclear reactions by which the sun lights and heats us, said “when one thinks about Johnny’s brain one must conclude that he belongs to a new species, an evolution beyond man”. So I should learn about one of his greatest creations, game theory.

            Now Dean you can tell me more about Socrates!

          • John

            By the way as a positive scientis you might be interested in these articles regarding the game theory and its implications on the EEZ between Greece and Turkey. The author is a well known Greek mathematician in France and a strong proponent of the proclamation of the Greek EEZ.

            http://www.lygeros.org/articles?n=6079&l=en
            http://www.lygeros.org/articles?n=6069&l=en

  • Theodore Kariotis

    It has been cited as I have been saying the following:

    As Prof. Theodoros Kariotis, of Maryland University in the US, explained: “Greece has a lot to gain regarding the oil fields if it signs a deal with Turkey based on a double agreement that will divide both the seabed and the EEZ.”

    I have never made such a statement and I regret that you have used my name in such a truly regretful way.

    Prof. Theodore Kariotis

    • AHamilton

      Thank you Mr. Kariotis for confirming my doubts when I first read this article. I had heard you speak at a Hellenic Link event in Chicago a few months ago on the issue and this (mis)statement seemed contradictory to what you had discussed. Thank you for the clarification.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

    And not to state the obvious but the Defense & Foreign Affairs magazine is traced back to this “for hire” fountain of wisdom:

    http://www.strategicstudies.org/

    • AHamilton

      It seems that this article is discredited at this point. I don’t know how much weight you should put behind an organization, the one that authored the article, that put the statement shown below on every page of its website. Below is the statement that I cut and paste from the link provided by Dean above:

      © 2004 International Strategic Studies Association. ISSA does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed.

  • Makos

    What is presented here in this article seems well documented. The author is pretty well informed.
    However there are some false and other missing data that does not allow us to draw the right conclusions.
    1) The previous government of Nea Dimokratia party in Greece and specifically the ex prime minister Karamanlis had signed an agreement with Russia and Bulgaria on another pipeline project, the so called Burgas-Alexandroupolis pipeline, a short pipeline with big geopolitical importance. The US made everything possible to cancel this project (even by participating in the consortium and undermining it internally) to such an extent that many in Greece now believe that the Karamanlis government was finally taken down with the help of the US. The project is now considered essentially cancelled.

    2) The EU wants gas. The EU is actually desperate for energy! It can take it by 4 sources in an economically viable way (ie through pipelines or short distanced shipping).
    -North Africa (the issue is resolved by the Arab spring ‘revolution’),
    -Iran (no longer an option because of the sanctions),
    -Russia and
    -Eastern Med (Cyprus, Israel and Greece).
    Having more options gives an advantage, because the EU will not depend on a sole provider. Especially regarding Cyprus and Greece the providers will be EU members that will also be economically dependable and thus totally controlled by the EU, because of the crisis and the money it lends them.
    The US position is rather controversial. From one hand the US certainly prefer to control the sources of energy for the EU in order to politically control the union. On the other hand it does not want the EU to be left with limited suppliers, and specifically Russia, because that will throw the EU, a major economic and political partner, in the control of Russia. So the US stands against Russian projects and Iran and at the same time supports Israel and the Arab Spring.
    On the issue of Cyprus hydrocarbons the US show a favorable position because Israel needs Cyprus to install the processing plant and use the island as a transport hub and because a US company is involved in Cyprus’ reservers (Noble Energy) and at the time the US has the leverage of favoring the Turkish threat over the island in case the Cypriot government decides to follow a strategy against US’s interests.
    However regarding Greece the US position is not that clear. From one hand Greece is the next chain in the transportation route of US controlled Eastern Med gas to the EU and from the other hand the US seems reluctant to allow Greece to drill for its own hydrocarbons because it knows that it will have limited control over them. All hydrocarbons found in Greece will totally fall under the control of Berlin and Paris, the two major lenders of Greece. This is clear. So in Greece you can find politicians and media that are strong proponents of the drilling who are either true Greeks patriots or people controlled by Germany and France and people who strongly oppose the exploration and exploitation that are controlled by the US (like Andrianopoulos).

    3) the 60/20/20 split for the Aegean part of the Greek hydrocarbons was an older strategy of the US, effective in the 70′s,80′s and 90′s. The basic notion behind this plan was to help Turkey dispute the obvious Greek rights on the Aegean and create tension. The US will later come as the party that will help solve the dispute on their own benefit. What I mean is that usually the company that exploits the hydrocarbons gets far less than a 60% share. That is what happens in the whole world. However by creating tension and coming as the one who settles the difference the US gets two things. The right to put its own oil companies in the exploitation process and an unimaginable 60% share for them! But that plan was until the 90′s. Because since then the price of the hydrocarbons has followed a considerable upwards trend and the drilling technology has evolved so much that now it is possible to drill at far deeper seas. Thus the apparently huge Greek reserves south of Crete are becoming exploitable. The Aegean reserves are considered relatively unimportant by now. So we will probably not witness another Imia crisis in the Aegean like we did in 1996…

    4) There is still a role for Turkey. The next major hydrocarbons reserve is situated in the middle of the distance between Cyprus and Crete, south of the Greek island of Kastelorizo. The US is probably behind the Turkish effort to question the Greek rights on an EEZ there. The Greek EEZ there will allow a direct connection with the EEZ of Cyprus so a pipeline will be feasible without the consent of Turkey (however is still questionable whether such a pipeline will be economically viable). Secondly, getting this part of the EEZ from Greece in favor of Turkey will diminish the geopolitical importance of Greece to the EU. The EU will of course then resort to Turkey as another of its gas supplier. This is in favor of US interests because it will diminish the geopolitical importance of a fully EU controlled Greece, as far as Turkey will stay under the political influence of the US and stop pursuing an independent policy. And to be honest here Turkey does indeed have legal arguments on questioning the Greek EEZ in this area (on the contrary what Turkey says in the Aegean is outrageous). I am sure we will see more developments on this front.
    5) As fot the Aegean ‘issue’ (which became an issue under the outrageous Turkish claims on a rationale not much different of Nazi’s ”Lebensraum’) can be settled by forgetting about expanding our national area to 12NM (we can even agree to limit our national space in the air to 6NM according to international law that provides for a similar limit of national boundaries in both air and sea) and instead establishing an EEZ that will provide us with the full exploitation of the Aegean. With such a move we will avoid the problems in expanding our territorial waters to 12NM and thus making Aegean a national Greek lake. The Turkish ‘casus belli’ in expanding our territorial waters to 12NM I strongly believe that is supported on the background by both the US and Russia because it will also deprive them of an international corridor from the Black Sea to the East Med. So it will be in Greece’s interest to forget about this issue and instead pursue the establishment of its EEZ in the Aegean. So we will avoid all the troubles and we will still be able to benefit from the economic exploitation of this sea (from hydrocarbons to fishing rights). Of course Turkey will object even such a generous offer from Greece but then Ankara will be clearly exposed as a revisionist and aggressive country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

      Mako:

      My understanding about Kastelorizo is that there are 14 islands involved forming the island(Strongili) complex in question. It’s therefore their combined EEZs (of the 14) which allows connectivity with the Cypriot EEZ and thus provides an outlet for Israeli and Cypriot energy transit to Europe.

      Kasrelorizo is not a Greek-Turkish issue. It’s a European issue.

      Check this out if you can understand Greek. It provides the proper framework:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvoTT8P8ZUk

      • Makos

        Dean I posted earlier my response but it just disappeared…I do not know what happened. So I am actually rewriting and reposting my answer hoping that everything will be ok this time.

        So reverting to the source let’s see what UNCLOS says about this issue:

        Article59
        Basis for the resolution of conflicts regarding the attribution of rights and jurisdiction in the exclusive economic zone
        In cases where this Convention does not attribute rights or jurisdiction to the coastal State or to other States within the exclusive economic zone, and a conflict arises between the interests of the coastal State and any other State or States, the conflict should be resolved on the basis of equity and in the light of all the relevant circumstances, taking into account the respective importance of the interests involved to the parties as well as to the international community as a whole.
        ……………….
        Article74
        Delimitation of the exclusive economic zone
        between States with opposite or adjacent coasts
        1. The delimitation of the exclusive economic zone between States with opposite or adjacent coasts shall be effected by agreement on the basis of international law, as referred to in Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice, in order to achieve an equitable solution.
        2. If no agreement can be reached within a reasonable period of time, the States concerned shall resort to the procedures provided for in Part XV.
        3. Pending agreement as provided for in paragraph 1, the States concerned, in a spirit of understanding and cooperation, shall make every effort to enter into provisional arrangements of a practical nature and, during this transitional period, not to jeopardize or hamper the reaching of the final agreement. Such arrangements shall be without prejudice to the final delimitation.
        4. Where there is an agreement in force between the States concerned, questions relating to the delimitation of the exclusive economic zone shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of that agreement.

        Article 287
        Choice of procedure
        1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State shall be free to choose, by means of a written declaration, one or more of the following means for the settlement of disputes concerning the interpretation or application of this Convention:
        (a) the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea established in accordance with Annex VI;
        (b) the International Court of Justice;
        (c) an arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VII;
        (d) a special arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VIII for one or more of the categories of disputes specified therein.

        The keyword here is the “equitable solution” stated on article 74. What the hell does an equitable solution means?
        http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm

        To my knowledge here we have the conflict between two schools of thought, the one that supports the method of the “median line” and the one which promotes the delimitation based on “principles of justice.”
        But how the ICJ interprets the equitable solution? As far as I know the ICJ usually gives full fledged EEZ rights (ie based on the median line) to all islands or islets sustaining a basic economic activity. But this is not always the case. See this interesting article on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_delimitation_between_Romania_and_Ukraine
        So Turkey might indeed have a right to question the Greek EEZ in that area, based on UNCLOS and the relevant jurisprudence of the ICJ, because a small complex of Greek island inhabited by a few hundred people deprives the vast and populous Anatolia from an important economic benefit. Let alone the rest of the inhabited islets of the Megisti complex which as you correctly said are the ones that offer connectivity to the Cypriot EEZ.
        Just to be clear. I am not suggesting that Turkey is right on this issue. I am only saying that it might indeed have some legal basis to question the Greek rights in that area (as opposed to what happens in the Aegean and in Cyprus where all Turkish claims are outrageous).

        But what really worries me is that Turkey has not signed the UNCLOS treaty despite the fact that it implements its provisions on its Black Sea coastline. Ankara has even refused a Greek proposal to submit all these issues (which are caused by Turkish claims and not by Greek claims) to the ICJ. In my opinion the reasoning behind this Turkish position is that probably an ICJ decision will be against Turkish claims at least on the Aegean. So Ankara tries to differentiate the dispute in Kastelorizo with the dispute in the Aegean because in the first case there is some legal basis while in the second case there is absolutely no legal basis. Ankara prefers to draw Greece to a bilateral settlement where the military, economic and diplomatic power of the two parties will play the major role, and where Turkey can stand a chance to succeed most of its goals. Hopefully Greece has not fallen into this trap although the US wanted to do so in the past (as I explained in my previous post).
        Dean I do not believe we disagree on anything. As you said it is in Greece’s favor to show to the EU that this is an issue that directly affects its interests and get the EU actively involved. Then we can achieve a certain victory either in a ICJ court or/and under the context of the EU-Turkey accession negotiations. But Turkish diplomats are not dumb and they will certainly refuse to negotiate under such a negative environment for them. They will certainly keep on questioning Greek rights just to deprive us of the exploitation of our resources and get stronger.

        By the way the video you posted is great. Especially the excellent diplomatic activity of our brothers in Cyprus!

        • Makos

          Correction: So Turkey might indeed have a right to question the Greek EEZ in that area, based on UNCLOS and the relevant jurisprudence of the ICJ, because a small Greek island inhabited by a few hundred people deprives the vast and populous Anatolia from an important economic benefit. Let alone the rest of the uninhabited islets of the Megisti complex which as you correctly said are the ones that offer connectivity to the Cypriot EEZ.

          Sorry for that but English is not a language I use every day and I do mistakes especially when I write in a hurry.:)

        • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

          I – on the other hand – think the Turkish case to be merit less because:

          1. Islands have a disproportionate size to EEZ ratio effect. Malta, for example, has 173 larger EEZ than its actual size. The fact that Greece has roughly 2000 islands it’s a matter of fact and not subject to any dispute.

          2. The Greek EEZ does not in anyway limit passage to Turkey. Territorial waters have a limiting effect but the EEZ does not close down any sea lanes. It simply means that the resources contained therein are off limits to exploitation by others. Such as fisheries, biodiversities, ecosystems or wind potential above such area.

          3. Whether a country is a signatory to UNCLOS or not is irrelevant. The standard procedure is that even countries like the US and Israel who are not signatories, observe UNCLOS regardless. Obviously in the case of Israel, Palestine is an issue to be resolved as it affects its EEZ. Finally the US recently decided to become a signatory because its absence from the table on Law of the Sea issues limits its law formative leverage.

          4. If the Greek EEZ was such a mystery then independent organizations would not be able to calculate: http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/300.aspx

          5. The EEZ is not a a bilateral matter between Greece and Turkey. As member of the EU, Greece is obligated to use the median line and UNCLOS as the guiding principles. And Greece can not improvise on such issue. Greece is obligated to follow and safeguard the European norm.

          6. In the question of Greek EEZ, Turkey will be the last country with which Greece will delimit its borderline according to the median line principle, not the first. Cyprus is ahead in this area and has already shown that Turkish unwillingness to recognize the Cypriot EEZ in no way limits Cyprus’ European rights, a position which the EU has reaffirmed time and time again. Greece is no different in this matter. Her EEZ is fully supported by and in fact is part of the European EEZ and therefore not subject to bargaining away or deviated from.

          • Makos

            Dean,

            1 & 2 agreed. I am saying the exact same thing.

            3. Υou are right. Even though Turkey has not signed the agreement the rather universal acceptance of UNCLOS gives it an extremely strong legal status (eg imagine nine out of ten neigbhoring countries using UNCLOS to delineate their borders and the tenth state refusing to accept the agreement. Practically this state will have to accept it. And actually this has happened with Turkey in the Black Sea.). The imminent US acceptance of the treaty will further enhance this status. However Turkish refusal to sign the agreement is more a political statement than a legal argument.

            4 &5 I am just saying that the median line issue is certainly not part of the UNCLOS agreement and I am not sure that the EU suggests or imposes a specific way to deal with the delimitation of the EEZ. Although the median line is the easiest and most frequent way to solve these issues it is not always the case in the ICJ court.

            6. Well Cyprus has showed us what a small, coordinated and efficient group of skilled professionals and patriots can do. The Cyprus EEZ team (diplomats, politicians, lawyers etc) managed to ‘win’ the negotiations with far more powerful states such as Egypt and negate the power of others like Turkey. It is a true diplomatic accomplishment that we should use as our guide. We can accomplish the same thing as long as we follow the example of Cyprus.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Mako: You are right!

          • Makos

            Dean I am glad we agree.

            Btw I just read this extemely informative article that I would like to share with you.
            http://infognomonpolitics.blogspot.gr/2012/07/2009.html#.T_mQxhc7il4

            It seems that you are right on that EU does actually promote the median line.

            I wish someone could help translate this useful article and give it to this site so that a more international audience can be informed of what’s going on.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Mako:

            Good article. Actually the latest Greek position(as of yesterday) can be found in this speach of the FM Avramopoulos(see starting around minute 3, especially around minute 8)

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRhYm25q0k

    • canavar

      Makos-good analysis. But you seem to conflict with Dean on very serious stuff. Could you two clarify?

      • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

        Canavar: If you follow the thread below, Makos and I agree. Because it’s part of the Greek way of thinking to examine all possibilities through argumentation, sometimes when you follow Greek exchanges you might think that you spot points of disagreement when in fact there are none.

        • canavar

          In the great tradition of Socrates?

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Socrates and a few others are already baked into the Greek cake. It’s who we are.

  • Eric R.

    “The bottom line: The US Obama Administration is trying to help Ankara in whichever way possible in order to embolden Ankara’s support for the various Muslim Brothers and other Islamist movements rising in the Arab world: from Libya and Egypt to the escalating war in Syria.”

    Yet another reason why we have to vote that Marxist Islamist idiot out come November.

    • canavar

      This time I would agree with you if Romney wasn’t so far right. It just makes me sick to see Obama embracing Erdogan and calling him one of his five most trusted leaders. Indirectly he’s endorsing Erdogan’s love Hamas. No surprise. The man who said the “Arab Spring” is a “sea change” in the Middle East (a change from the sea of Hades to the sea of Hell) and has made so many “tilts” to the Muslims, including in the US, is a closet Muslim who should be “outed”.

      • kasomoulis

        Canavar,
        I disagree that Romney is “so far right” I believe he, like McCain is a dissent conservative. I am not sure they will not impose on him another Palin and spoil the ticket!
        As for Obama, I understand your support for Israel. I believe, even though he has declared his 110% support for Israel’s security, he is trying to do the balance act between Israel and the Arabs. Also remember Bibi is going all out following Rush Limbaugh’s doctrine to get Obama to not succeed even if it would destroy the country! I am not sure there is anything Obama can do to get Bibi’s support anyway!
        Considering these I think Obama is not anti- Israel, rather “anti-Bibi”. Because Bibi has his nose behind the neo-cons and cannot see beyond!
        Now for Erdogan-Obama love, everyone knows it has been the US policy to get Turkey in shape to join the EU since the 60s, trying to make Turkey an EU problem without losing the benefits. In addition the US has been trying rather passively, obviously without success to eliminate the Turkish-Greek centuries old dispute, even if this will put Greece on the losing side. So it is not just Obama. This has been the US policy ever since I can remember. Just like the “council of foreign relations” said it through Stearns’ pen. This article reflects exactly the same opinion about Turkey and Greece as Stearns did in 1992.Thus they do not need to directly quote Hilary they know what she serves!
        ENTAGLED ALLIES
        by Monteagle Stearns
        (a council of foreign relations book)
        ISBN # 0-87609-110-9
        So the Greeks have done the right thing to wait on the EEZ issue till the international law imposes the issue and Turkey will have no excuse to blackmail any more. The downside being that this deprives Greece from exploiting her resources when she mostly needs it.
        I would not be surprised if there is enormous amount of effort going on in the background to get Turkey and Israel back together. It will probably happen.. the question is when! And if that was to happen, what with the new alliance? No doubt that worries the Greeks.
        Still my vote will go to the guy that, to my estimate, will do the better job on the economy and secondly on the foreign policies. I believe the economy will not get back to the “old good times” unless manufacturing gets back, and this will not be in our life time without intervention. Which may be in terms of tax breaks or a complex law that requires a % of anything that will be sold in the US, would have to have been made in the US.
        Eric on the other hand is lined up behind Limbaugh and has no sight up front…. Unless he is a millionaire… in which case I can understand his… not understanding the rest of us.

        • canavar

          My fellow American Kas, I beg to disagree with everything you said.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            My view on this that, of course, it’s an American issue and Americans will decide it.

            Trying to distance a bit from ideology, Obama seems to have done better than expected in the foreign policy area (in terms of winding down Iraq and trying to pull out of Afghanistan). Also another thing going for him is that more than 60% of Americans polled still think that the economy is Bush’s error and mishandling (a very surprising find 4 years after. The common logic is that after 2 years a new President owns responsibility for the economy, but not in this case).

            Romney’s strong points are perceived managerial strength and competence but his personal wealth of $250+ Mil. could be a turn off for some. Romney needs to find ways of connecting with people if he is to become their president.

            At present the race is about even. Americans are fair judges of character and for a President to lose an election he needs to have made major errors. Deep ideological differences are not a cause for change; they are simply a sign of the divided politics of our times and can be found in every country around the world.

            My personal view is therefore, than unless something spectacular occurs between now and November, Obama seems closer for the job than not. But it’s close.

          • canavar

            Dean,
            Four months in US politics can be four years in anything else.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Not really. It’s all about the electoral votes.

            BTW, it seems from this map that the most unsophisticated, backwards, red-neckish part of America votes Republican.

            So, it looks to me that unless a person wants to advertise his/her low sophistication, Republicanism is the sort of label sophisticated Americans avoid at all costs.

            Forgive me for saying this but just look at what states vote for Republicans. All the semi-illiterate, backwards people.

            Most civilized people would really feel ashamed to be residents of GOP states plus there is the fact that Romney is a manager. Americans don’t want a manager in the Whitehouse, they want a President.

            And if Obama wins, don’t blame him. Blame the GOP (nothing grand about it anymore) for fielding such a low quality candidate. If you don’t like Obama you need to find a much better candidate to defeat him. Romney is minor league compared to Obama. I am sure there are other Americans better than Obama, but Romney ain’t it.

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

          • canavar

            Dean, What I mean, especially in a close election like this, is that unexpected things can tip the result at any time. Thus suppose that there is a big economic/political crisis due to events out of Obama’s control (Euro Crisis, Israeli attack on Iran, etc.), then if a small per cent of independent voters from the swing states change their minds, the election odds can do an instantaneous flip flop. Other flip flop possibilities include new scandals or lies that get bought by this the make-or-break voters, like those that unfairly sunk John Kerry in 2004.
            So four months IS really like four years in close elections.
            Two points:
            1.The yokel states play an a disproportionate role in the US since they field most of the best (US) football teams. I found a strong negative correlation between football titles and academic excellence (the latter measured by scientific rankings) . One of our best universities the U. of Chicago, junked its football team in the 1930′s and Harvard, Yale, Princeton,… play in the lowly Ivy league which rarely produces professional caliber players–let alone super stars.
            2. I’d like to see a Socratic dialogue between you and Kas concerning Romney.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Phoevos Dean Plassaras

            Canavar:

            My comment was not prejudice, just observation.

            A quick view at the US map above shows that the least developed, least sophisticated parts of the US to be Republican.

            This awful fact, plus the lack of a charismatic candidate are the main 2 factors which have already determined the outcome. The rest is just an American tradition for competition and a fight. Too much wasted time in my opinion; this election is already in the bag.

            And if the Republicans wanted truly to win, then they should have chosen a better candidate.

            This is no longer a Presidential election; it’s all about who will control Congress and the Senate.

            So, your choices are:

            1. Obama with GOP control of both houses.

            2. Obama with GOP control of the lower house.

          • canavar

            3. Democrats controlling both houses and Obama in the White House.
            That is my choice.

            The new Republican party in my opinion is disgusting and worthless (terms I often use to describe Erdogan).

            Who said anything about prejudice? “Yokel” is derogatory slang. When I said that the “yokel states play a disproportionate role…” I was being completely sarcastic. Sure two of the country’s least academically impressive universities–Alabama and Louisiana State–fought it out for the national collegiate football championship last winter. But that doesn’t exactly equate with a “disproportionate role” to anyone but ignoramuses.

            In other words I agree with you, even though we seem to have had a miscommunication.

          • kasomoulis

            Canaver… clever “Turkish dragon”
            Since you asked…. I think Romney is losing time, money and potential independents supporters with his two adds; on abolishing the health care law and the Roe v.Wade. The majority of the people don’t care about the health care law because they know the alternative is worse, and the Roe v. Wade issue alienates women.
            At the same time Congress is passing laws that they know they will not go anywhere. I am not sure how they expect to attract my independent vote for November unless they change the tune!
            At the point I believe Obama has the lead – and great leverage on the economy – he did not cause the collapse.
            At the end, I think, it is the economy that will make the day for either of these two candidates.
            Back on the Eastern Med. Does anyone know what is going on. Turkey is sashaying again within the Cyprus EEZ a cannon shot away from Nobel Energy’s platforms, and Israel has put out four ships and air support to counter it. The odd think is a third player is now involved (?) – Britain is conducting war games south of its bases in Cyprus

          • canavar

            Kas,
            I agree completely with
            your analysis of the election–but you still can’t rule him out at 100% level. But it seems that he is doing everything possible to destroy his chances.
            I don’t know what is going on in the E. Med. But of course we haven’t heard the last of it. The Turkish soap opera will go on long after we are gone.
            Incidentally my name means monster
            not dragon. A Turkish dragon is “Turk
            ejderi”. (pronounced (ehzhdairy)

          • kasomoulis

            My fellow American canavar these things happen, I would be sad if we agreed on everything! Because I do agree with some of the things you have stated here and from your statements I am to understand you agree with some of mine.
            I don’t know about you but once in a while a thing or two may come up we don’t agree on and that is OK with me! I can still say I am learning from you. For that I am appreciative.

        • canavar

          I partly agree with what you said on the E. Med. I overstated, a lot, my earlier unhappiness with your note. I guess I got so annoyed about the first things that I didn’t read the rest carefully enough
          Turkey with its supreme arrogance will declare any international law decision on the EEZ “null and void” like the UN Mavi report. Waiting for civilized behavior from Turkey is like waiting for Godot.
          The US due to its strategic interests is, of course, trying to get the separated pair to reconcile. Given Obama’s very recent performance with Morsi, the concessions will all be Israel’s. It will have to accept Turkey’s condescension, its certain to fail (since it is based on delusional policy making) neo-Ottomanism, and its love affair with Hamas. I think any such attempt will lead to outrage in Israel at present, and the politicians will listen.
          Incidentally I was interested in seeing how belligerent Emre and Ocamisiz were. It’s exactly what anyone who lived in Turkey would expect. Turks can be the nicest people on earth. But don’t stray out of their “olmaz (no) zone” unless you want their thin skins to be penetrated and their fury to fall on you.
          I did “olmaz” things and looke at their responses, “you are not welcome in Turkey, your Turkish is from Google Translate, you are not a professor of physics, and you are not American”.
          I hope that none of the regulars on this site take this nonsense seriously.